Crusading against the hardcore...

[Shevek]

This is my first post, so please be gentle.

Is it me or has the gaming press, as of late, been trying to undermine the "hardcore" contigent of gamers?

I personally think this is an attempt at saving face. Instead of admitting ignorance the press have decided to play a more underhand game.

Surely we should be doing something about this?

[DaiSuki]

Well, I'm not sure that I understand what this thread is about at all, given the last five posts (removed by me - mj), so I'll use it for my own nefarious purposes and hope that I'm pointing in the right direction.

If the gaming press is railing against the hardcore fraternity, then good on them - as long as they're railing against the right section of the hardcore fraternity. There is clearly nothing wrong with being a dedicated and committed gamer who devotes much of his (or her I suppose, but let's be honest, probably his) life to learning all they can learn of games, to becoming the best of the best in whichever genre they choose to apply themselves to. Clearly, however - and we've seen it here at ntsc-uk, just as we've seen it all over the net - there comes a point where hardcore crosses a line and becomes snobbish at the same time - develops into a cynical, sneering dismissal of all things simplistic and 'popular'; let's be honest, at a time when gaming is struggling, some of the traditional attitudes of people who have been playing games for a long time are doing more harm than good - with Sega and Nintendo floundering, we need as much interest from non-traditional gamers as we can get, and if the printed press is aiming at this sector then I certainly approve of that, to some extent.

As long as we don't end up losing sight of what makes gaming great, of course - I'd hate to think that all the sophisticated games of today, the result of 10, 20 years' refinement of genres, would go to waste as a result of gaming aiming at a more populist demographic - but magazines are not going to sell in the numbers they could by appealing only to those of us who play for four hours a day, and while alienating that part of the readership is obviously a stupid thing to do, I have to applaud their efforts to appeal to a much broader cross-section of the public. Gaming is growing up - casualties are mounting; who would have thought, even just six or seven years ago, that Sega would be in the position they are now? There are more 'casual' (although I shudder to use the term) gamers now than there are 'hardcore' (similar shudder) - the market is clearly all about maximising profit, and only the most forward-thinking will survive; the press has to look at their market the same way.

Please note that this post is, to a large extent, playing devil's advocate - I think there's a lot of discussion to be had from a topic like this, and I'm trying to kickstart it with a slightly exaggerated viewpoint

[disco-tom]

Aye, agreed.

[Shevek]

If the gaming press is railing against the hardcore fraternity, then good on them - as long as they're railing against the right section of the hardcore fraternity. There is clearly nothing wrong with being a dedicated and committed gamer who devotes much of his (or her I suppose, but let's be honest, probably his) life to learning all they can learn of games, to becoming the best of the best in whichever genre they choose to apply themselves to. Clearly, however - and we've seen it here at ntsc-uk, just as we've seen it all over the net - there comes a point where hardcore crosses a line and becomes snobbish at the same time - develops into a cynical, sneering dismissal of all things simplistic and 'popular'; let's be honest, at a time when gaming is struggling, some of the traditional attitudes of people who have been playing games for a long time are doing more harm than good - with Sega and Nintendo floundering, we need as much interest from non-traditional gamers as we can get, and if the printed press is aiming at this sector then I certainly approve of that, to some extent.

I couldn't agree more on the eradication of unecessary elitist attitudes, but my initial mention was mearly meant to highlight a more insidious situation. I don't think the "hardcore" are to blame, but more the insecure journalists who seem to be incapable of taking criticism regardless of how measured or sane it may be. I think this has skewed their take on the medium of gaming to the extent that they will, and have, ignored the injtricacy within a game so as to prove a point rather than uphold any level of journalistic integrity (read: actually reporting their subject matter in an unbiased and thorough fashion). Considering that these journalists are the foundation for the future of academic study on gaming, I am slighty worried how this childish attitude will carry forth into the future and moreover how it will manifest itself.

As long as we don't end up losing sight of what makes gaming great, of course - I'd hate to think that all the sophisticated games of today, the result of 10, 20 years' refinement of genres, would go to waste as a result of gaming aiming at a more populist demographic - but magazines are not going to sell in the numbers they could by appealing only to those of us who play for four hours a day, and while alienating that part of the readership is obviously a stupid thing to do, I have to applaud their efforts to appeal to a much broader cross-section of the public. Gaming is growing up - casualties are mounting; who would have thought, even just six or seven years ago, that Sega would be in the position they are now? There are more 'casual' (although I shudder to use the term) gamers now than there are 'hardcore' (similar shudder) - the market is clearly all about maximising profit, and only the most forward-thinking will survive; the press has to look at their market the same way.

True, one of the biggest problems and successes that faces the medium of gaming is that it is very much a commercial entity. I don't have a problem what level of gamer anyone may be, but I am concerned that the analytical media will dismiss games and their consequent intricacy due to petty and insecure motives. This is a problem, how one may play their games is not really the issue here.

Please note that this post is, to a large extent, playing devil's advocate - I think there's a lot of discussion to be had from a topic like this, and I'm trying to kickstart it with a slightly exaggerated viewpoint

Discussion is good.

[srgbilco]

I don't know. The only openly hostile article I've read was in Edge, the infamous Redeye article. As a generalisation, most of the single format mags encourage their readers to be hardcore in the support of whichever platform. So I'm not really sure. Obviously, I don't read every magazine out there, in fact I only really read Edge each month, but this is the general impression I've got.

[DaiSuki]

OK, I think I see what you mean. And, for those of us who have been around for lord-knows-how-long, I agree entirely.

But I'd refer again to the 'growing up' thing (although clearly I don't mean this in any 'maturing and becoming inherently better' way, more just 'changing'). In the 1970s, there were people - and people in the music press - who championed Prog Rock and all its overblown, piffling excess. Punk came along and wiped the slate clean, and the music press (I imagine) scrambled to keep up, moving away from the past and embracing the future of music.

Perhaps it's less to do with lazy and childish journalism, and more to do with the perceived direction the market is taking? Continuing to rave about, and analyse, complex and potentially hardcore subjects could be seen as the equivalent of deep discussions about Pink Floyd while the Sex Pistols floated by on a barge and changed most peoples' opinions on where music was heading. Not necessarily a good thing, but understandable in a changing market?

[Shevek]

I don't know. The only openly hostile article I've read was in Edge, the infamous Redeye article. As a generalisation, most of the single format mags encourage their readers to be hardcore in the support of whichever platform. So I'm not really sure. Obviously, I don't read every magazine out there, in fact I only really read Edge each month, but this is the general impression I've got.

It is a far more widespread malaise, but EDGE are a notable example to be sure. I do not wish to specifically point fingers though, it won't really lead to anything (especially considering how hyper-sensitive most games journalists are, it is why this predicament has presented itself after all). Instead I think it is necessary to lay bare the insidious nature of what these journalists are trying to achieve. Put them on the spot if you will. Naturally, this is only an idea.

[Shevek]

Perhaps it's less to do with lazy and childish journalism, and more to do with the perceived direction the market is taking? Continuing to rave about, and analyse, complex and potentially hardcore subjects could be seen as the equivalent of deep discussions about Pink Floyd while the Sex Pistols floated by on a barge and changed most peoples' opinions on where music was heading. Not necessarily a good thing, but understandable in a changing market?

Is inclusivity in gaming the new rennaissance for the medium? I think the financial evidence indicates otherwise. The likes of "Virtual Fighter 4 Evolution" have transformed the Japanese arcade scene. To the extent that SEGA are now making a hefty profit. To clarify, I am not championing SEGA here merely using them to prove a point. Yu Suzuki's beat-em-up magnum opus is painfully intricate, yet it is incredibly popular. The gaming press hasn't really covered things like this for fear of fuelling the "hardcore" fire (with the term "hardcore" in this context referring to insecure gamers who look to define their existence through skill and knowledge). I think this is a misguided and petty motive, and one that sinks to the level of the people they wish to chastise. Instead they should report what is happening and also listen to the criticisms that they receive (factual innacuracy is the most notable of these). Again, these are merely ideas on my part.

[DaiSuki]

I understand exactly what you mean, and so far as your argument goes I agree with you; that being the case, I can't add any more than I already have (but I hope somebody else will, this is potentially a very interesting subject).

To sum up, then, my point is that the Japanese arcade scene has been revitalised by what's happened with Evo (and yeah, we may as well stop talking around the subject as it's clearly the biggest issue of the moment and illustrates both our POVs' perfectly). However - is the press avoiding the issue because of a lack of understanding, or an unwillingness to commit to the depth of the title - or avoiding the issue because they are of the opinion that games like Evo don't represent the future of videogaming? The media is insanely powerful - you only need to look at music these days to understand that. With more and more gamers arriving on the scene and feeling the need to be directed, I agree that attitudes in the press - if these attitudes do exist, which I don't for a second doubt - could be damaging to the industry as a whole, insofar as entertainment is concerned. Looking to the future is all well and good, but ignoring the past has got to be a mistake.

So, yeah, you were right in your initial post

[Concept]

Is there an openly hostile attitude towards the hardcore community?

Yes.

What irritates me though is that the meaning and term of “hardcore” the way I see it has been changed and transformed to fit in with someone else's preconception's of stereotype. There are claims floating around that the "hardcore" community are snobbish and elite, and yet at the same time those claims themselves could be considered in the same fashion.

Some sectors of the videogaming community are dismissed as being closed-off and backward looking, especially with the way they generalise things they aren't familiar with. But exactly the same could be said of the way this sector is being totally written off through a very one-dimensional viewpoint.

Personally, that's what I'm resentful off. I simply don't have the time or the energy for people who aren't willing to have an open mind and accept different viewpoints.

With regards to EDGE. Well, to be frank, they are all over the place at the moment. You've got RedEye one month openly preaching the virtues of Sega's cream and MAME, and then the next textually obliterating the hardcore community for perceived arrogance. Another month you've got RedEye throwing up concerns about the cynicism of the industry collaborating and throwing up yet more licensed titles, then the next moaning why there aren't more people from the film industry getting involved to create more products.

Then you've got the magazine. One month the editorial is bitching about the arrogance of the "hardcore" community towards the mainstream. Another month the editorial is focused on how you shouldn't be ashamed of being "hardcore" by what people think, and don't be afraid of carrying that Steel Battalion case away from the store. At one point, you've got the editorial claming the quality of videogames has never been higher and we shouldn't have any reason to complain, then another recent month fretting over the fact that the quality and depth of software just isn't there anymore.

Put simply, there is total lack of balance in terms of philosophy with EDGE. A magazine with a lack of focus, if I ever saw one.

Back to the question at hand... Well I mentioned this in another thread. It's all the rage at the moment to prevent yourself from being "elitist". We're supposed to openly embrace the like of 'Game Stars'. Because, ****, it gives gaming a bit of coverage and gets people who don't know a lot about the scene more involved. If you don't happen to like the way the programme presented itself, then you're made to feel like you have no reason to complain via the argument that the show wasn't designed for you...

But let's turn this little argument back in on itself shall we?

Should the likes of Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution be denied coverage in the mainstream press because it wasn't designed for the masses? By this logic, those who are opposed to such action shouldn't have any reason to complain because the game wasn't designed for them.

But heck, one rule for one, a different rule for the rest.

The way I see it is that the demographic of videogaming is changing and the press are reflecting this. If you can persuade the "hardcore" community to think they are dying, then hey, it might just trigger a self-fulfilling prophecy. People shouldn't be afraid of being passionate, of embracing the games and a way of life they happen to like.

But the press is treating that as something bad. I agree with DaiSuki that there's nothing wrong with highlighting close-mindedness. But in doing so, certain sections of the press are tainting an entire sector of the demographic with the same brush.

And for that, I hold them no respect.

[Molloy]

Hardcore is such a loaded term. I prefer enthusiast.

The fact of the matter is there are irritating twats on both the enthusiast and casual sides who can astonish with their narrow mindedness.

I'm a pretty dedicated gamer but I try to keep an open mind. I like to see people who are willing to teach and willing to learn. A bit of manners and tolerance go a very long way.

[giogi]

Hardcore is such a loaded term. I prefer enthusiast.

The fact of the matter is there are irritating twats on both the enthusiast and casual sides who can astonish with their narrow mindedness.

I'm a pretty dedicated gamer but I try to keep an open mind. I like to see people who are willing to teach and willing to learn. A bit of manners and tolerance go a very long way.

Yep, Hardcore (and Casual) is often a term derided by all gamers. But we all can agree that though the terms may be descriptively... well, a bit naff, they have also become well understood tags that describe two types of gamer - tags that have become common in both the press and gaming forums.

[Shevek]

Whilst both the terms "hardcore" and "casual" maybe be loaded, it is the implementation of these connotations that is causing a problem. The press are using these handles to undermine the voice of the consumers (eg - us!). Surely the press should be the voice of the people and not a force of subjugation?

[tssk]

I can sympathise a little bit about the growing annoyance directed at the hardcore.

A couple of months ago I posted a topic in PAL gaming about how some PAL games were better than their NTSC bretheren. Some. Not all. I even pointed out that these were in the minority. I pointed out that I wasn't suggessting that PAL should be the new standard or that we should put up with crappy slowed down 'conversions'. It was just a little thread about a couple of games that worked better in their PAL versions due to resolution differences.

I got spanked. Hard. Whilst some lept to my defence, quite a few people misconstrued what I was saying. Maybe I didn't express myself properly. Maybe some were trolling. Maybe I should not even have dared to suggest that R-Types on the PSOne is better played in PAL than NTSC. But the backlash was so strong that my visits to NTSCUK have been a lot less than they used to be.

So. The hardcore. Most of you are delightful people who love the strange and the wonderful. It's a bit like wine vs beer. It's about sophistication.

Just remember, all of you were casual gamers once. And if some of the hardcore keep up with the 'comic store owner' syndrome, then gaming will continue to be a hobby on the edge of the mainstream media. Sneer at the casual players, and don't be surprised if they end up sneering back.

[Shevek]

I got spanked. Hard. Whilst some lept to my defence, quite a few people misconstrued what I was saying. Maybe I didn't express myself properly. Maybe some were trolling. Maybe I should not even have dared to suggest that R-Types on the PSOne is better played in PAL than NTSC. But the backlash was so strong that my visits to NTSCUK have been a lot less than they used to be.

So. The hardcore. Most of you are delightful people who love the strange and the wonderful. It's a bit like wine vs beer. It's about sophistication.

Just remember, all of you were casual gamers once. And if some of the hardcore keep up with the 'comic store owner' syndrome, then gaming will continue to be a hobby on the edge of the mainstream media. Sneer at the casual players, and don't be surprised if they end up sneering back.

I would agree with you if the "hardcore" contingent consisted entirely of individuals such as this. It doesn't and I don't. These petty few are merely vocal in their idiocy, and not necessarily representative of this social subset. However, these outspoken plonkers are perfect targets for the press. So with a little work you can effect a pretty thorough smear campaign, invalidating and undermining any claims that these gamers may have.

This is the crux of the issue. The press are trying desperately to bury the hardcore. Now it doesn't take much intelligence to figure out why, but I am more worried about the wider ramifications of all this.

The standard of games journalism is very much at an impasse. Gamers are becoming a more discerning bunch and considerably more knowledgeable about the medium. As such they expect a high standard from the press that covers gaming. So if the "gamer on the street" can accurately and vocally pinpoint falsehoods within the press it somewhat questions the legitimacy of their coverage.

Instead of actually dealing with this in a constructive fashion, the press have decided to cop out and blame their readers for, essentially, being more knowledgeable than they are. I find this to be a rather unfortunate problem.

As for your PAL predicament, you are indeed right. There are quite a few games that are better in PAL than in NTSC. Admittedly some of these were coded in a PAL region (such as the UK) which would explain their innate PAL optimisation, but some games simply work better in PAL (PSone R-Type is indeed a notable example, as is the original Bushido Blade).