Xbox Live Market Place - General Discussion Thread 1

[Rossco]

Well for me it was because like I said, I got about 10,000+ worth of stuff from the quest, and my guy is now fully kitted out in enchanted glass armour.

You win some, you lose some. I liked it.

[Brats]

I purchased the car pack for PGR3 @ 400 points, which is far better value. Geometry Wars at 400 points gives you hours of gaming. The Orrery "add-on" takes ten minutes to complete, and you get a spell.

Think about it this way, if you had to pay ?1.50 for each quest in the game, it'd have cost you over ?200. Still think it represents good value for money?

Depends on how you look at it. I'd argue that for the 60+ hours of gameplay that Oblivion has given me, I would have paid over ?200 for the experience. I believe that the comparison is not that the add on represents bad value for money, but that the main game represents extremely good value for money.

You're also looking at it in a very matter of fact way, as in what does this add on give you in terms of stats/additional powers. I liked the idea of the Orrery purely because I like these arcane machines from the ES universe(which fills in some back story with the whole series). I suggest that if you bought this quest expecting a mega longsword with Fire damage + 60 then you bought it for the wrong reason.

[EvilBoris]

Considering that the game cost ?50 and had 200 quests to complete is incredible value for money, they could of easily justified charging more for the game. But obviously that's only if you decide to measure a game purely based upon the quantity of missions.

Consider that the download contains new speech, new models, new animations, new textures and it doesn't seem that unrealistc for them to release it for

I don't think that ?1.76 is that unreasonably really, I thought switching on the orrery was pretty damn cool.
I think being able to go back to that machine once every game month and get a new power is quite useful anyway

[MartyG]

The problem is this will happen more and more. Games will be intentionally stripped down in order for content to be sold via market place after the initial game purchase. If developers see that people are willing to lap these things up, they'll go K'ching!

I agree that Oblivion represents very good value for money, all the more reason why this mod falls well short of the quality of the rest of the game. It's far from 10/10.

The description of this mod was intentionally vague, I'm sure had it been properly described less people would have purchased it.

We should expect more value, lest we are doomed to an ever shrinking gaming experience unless we pay for the additional content.

An example ( this is only an example, and I'm not saying this will be the case, just that it's pointing in that sort of direction ), the new SiN game will be episodic: http://www.sinepisodes.com/index.php?news

Now it could be that the length of the episodes are equivalent to say, the entire game of Doom on the PC. Or it could be that rather than deliver SiN as a complete game, the episodes are merely chapters.

Fine if this content is value for money, I have no issues with paying for it - but I don't think it's unreasonable for game mods to provide something over the original content, and for that content to be of the same high standard.

[EvilBoris]

That's only one way of looking at it though, its all very easy to turn around and say "That should of been in the game in the first place" , but at what point does this stop? They could of held back the game another 6 months and included these quests, but then people would of complained. They could bring out an expansion pack in 2 years time and Charge ?30 for it, but are you going to complain that you shouldn't have to pay? You wouldn't argue that Besthesda have a nerve for not including the entire Oblvion game inside of Morrowind so why quibble over ?1.50

At what point do you stop saying that additional content shouldn't be chargeable? The fact is it all costs time and money to develop and besthesda are trying to make money out of us, they don't make a games just for a laugh, it is made so it makes them money.

[MartyG]

That's not what I'm saying, it's right that additional content be charged for - I'm saying the the content should provide value for money.

IMO even at ?1.50 this does not represent good value for money.

The expansion packs that were released for Morrowind (Bloodmoon and Tribunal), represented excellent value for money and added a lot to the game. I was more than happy to pay for these things.

The Orrery Quest is the equivalent of a ring tone for your phone. If you are happy to pay for that type of thing, fine you're free to do so, but I don't believe the Orrery Quest was sufficiently described: you didn't know what you're getting until you bought it, and unlike if I purchase a game and it sucks, I can take it back, I can't with this mod.

[Brats]

I don't think anyone could argue that Oblivion has been 'stripped down'.

It is clear that these add ons were being developed before the game was released, but one presumes at the time when testing, pressing and distribution were going on. In my opinion it makes sense, often developers have things they want to include in a game but they get left out because of time pressure. So a line is drawn where the director says ' no more'. But now the developers can carry on expanding these ideas after the event.

I think the description of the mod was vague so as not to act as a spoiler. If the description had said

->Open Spoiler<-

'Beat some bandits to get the parts to the Orrery and get a new spell'

I would have been disappointed with the give away. But it is easy to find out what is in these mods. If you're disapponted, then wait until others download it and a more detailed description is available.

As Bethesda have said, this is all new territory and they are dipping their toe in the water on both the type of mod and the cost. Therefore it is good that users are vocal in their feedback. I just hope the negativity doesn't swamp the positivity and put off developers from ever bothering with add ons.

I think the pricing strategy that Rare used with Kameo was a good idea. Charge for the extra fluff like downloadable costumes, but for the online co-op mode they gave this away for free.

[EvilBoris]

I can see that may be annoying, maybe you could just consider paying the ?1.50 extra as a way to thank besthesda for making such a good game in the first place

[marcus]

Isnt that what the money you hand over in the store to the cashier is for?

[EvilBoris]

Isnt that what the money you hand over in the store to the cashier is for?

Nah, I handed mine over because I am running a money laundering scam from within a GAME store.

[capcom_suicide]

I can see that may be annoying, maybe you could just consider paying the ?1.50 extra as a way to thank besthesda for making such a good game in the first place

Hmmm I'm not sure I agree with that.

On the one hand I think the point of Marketplace is that it is "Optional" so if there is content you pay for, then you it's your choice to buy it, and as previously noted, you can wait and hear if the download is any good before purchasing.

On the other hand, do we want to encourage the industry to lock parts of games away, so that we have to pay extra in order to play the whole game? I feel the price of 360 games is pretty damn high as it is. Added to the fact you can get the superior PC version for 25 quid, and a whole host of free mods, then it seems the xbox 360 community is being unfairly treated.

Therefore is it not the duty of gamers, and independent games sites to stand up against this?

Well it all depends on the content doesn't it.

I'd be happy to pay for a further 4 CO-OP missions on GRAW, if that is the only way the developer can finance the extras. But at the same time, for 50 quid, I would have liked more than 4 missions in the first place!

I think Marty is right to try and stand up against this, as it gives me a bad feeling about the potential misuse of marketplace by games publishers. A strong negative reaction to paying for limited content seems justified.

But then we all have different thresholds of tolerance for these matters, so it comes as no surprise that some folk can't see the harm in splashing a few gamer points on a small mission, where as others fear an unwelcome change to how we buy and pay for games in General.

What next? Pay to download a game for a fixed time window only? Just like the new DVD online services?

[Soi]

Well, despite some people's negative comments, I'll be buying the mod. At ?1:50, I'd be willing to give anything Oblivion related a go at the moment. TBH, they deserve another ?1:50 for that game.

[J0e Musashi]

Seems like the marketplace is going downhill. Any content should have to be extra to the game, not something that is just locked away. The free demos are a great way to see if you actually want to purchase a game, but again they should have to come out before a game goes on sale or its just a waste of time IMO. This SF2 malarky is starting to wind me up aswell. I got 2 DOA4 sticks and I bought 2100 points just for this game. It's taking far too long (I check nearly every day to see if its up yet) I know they're having problems with it, but how hard can it be? It's not the first fighter to go online afterall. Nobody gives a **** about Bedingfield or the MI:3 trailer either, just give us more games, and sooner.

[Akira]

meh,i can deal with &#163;1.50.I'll download it and i probally won't even tackle the quest until much later,so it's all good with me.

But i can't see how this affects the overall score of the game.Oblivion was/is a near perfect game without this add-on,so i don't see how this changed that.

[EvilBoris]

Seems like the marketplace is going downhill. Any content should have to be extra to the game, not something that is just locked away. This SF2 malarky is starting to wind me up aswell. I got 2 DOA4 sticks and I bought 2100 points just for this game. It's taking far too long (I check nearly every day to see if its up yet) I know they're having problems with it, but how hard can it be?

Why is it People have this attitude?
The marketplace has plenty of stuff and Is a brilliant idea, if it wasn't there at all you wouldn't be able to complain.

And there has only been 1 game so far that has downloads that unlock existing content on a game disc, that is ridge racer. It is free. Everything else is totally external to the disc you own.

YOU bought those sticks, YOU bought those points. Nobody forced you to.
If they released it tommorow with hideous online lag, no doubt you'd be one of the first to bitch about it. You can't have it both ways.