Consoles: NTSC vs PAL

[theledge]

Hi There,

I have not bought an NTSC console for some time, but recall with the ps1's that the NTSC games ran at a higher framerate than the pal ones. I recently saw an NTSC version of Halo and Halo 2, which were much more impressive than the PAL version. I don't like chipping consoles and so am planning on picking up an NTSC console so in future I can buy NTSC games (to avoid the disadvantages associated with PAL).

Would someone please be able to confirm for me that I am along the right lines, as my field of study has changed and I thought perhaps because of the whole HD thing, there might be a balance between PAL and NTSC games that wasn't present before.

Many Thanks

[Silvergun X]

I think the whole PAL vs NTSC issue nowadays is less about framerate and refresh rate, and more about release dates and general content.

In the past, the whole 50/60hz thing was definately an issue, but the thing that tends to get me is the fact that in Europe, we're on the arse end of the release schedule and, for the majority of games, tend to get things last. Or in some cases, not get games at all.

With High Definition, there's definately less of a gap between countries. There's not even a PAL and NTSC standard with it as far as i'm aware, but release dates continue to be a problem.

[Lyris]

Would someone please be able to confirm for me that I am along the right lines, as my field of study has changed and I thought perhaps because of the whole HD thing, there might be a balance between PAL and NTSC games that wasn't present before.

Yes, that's right. I played a PAL version of Halo 2 and was absolutely shocked at how slow it was. (Can this game not run in 60hz for people with European consoles?)

[Sane]

Halo 2 runs in 60hz, atleast it's smooth as silk for me on my PAL xbox. Halo 1 however only runs well in 50hz, becomes very choppy in 60hz due to the PAL optimisation I think.

[randombs]

I've had pal Halo 2 on my pal xbox since it came out and it's always worked in 60Hz. Same goes for playing it on the 360 (was in 720p hence 60Hz).

Hopefully with the HD standards all being 60Hz (480, 720 and 1080), then it would mean any uk game that supported those modes would be running at 60Hz anyway. there's those 576, etc, resolutions that are, i believe, not standards (yet?) so they're probably nothing to worry about as far as gaming is concerned.

i'm wondering what the situation is with Sky HD and terrestrial digital HD. according to the pics on Idiot Toys, the terrestrial stuff was running in 1080i and that, indicating 60Hz...

[randombs]

Halo 2 runs in 60hz, atleast it's smooth as silk for me on my PAL xbox. Halo 1 however only runs well in 50hz, becomes very choppy in 60hz due to the PAL optimisation I think.

that's just cos pal halo was done dodgily in 60hz
i think later copies of the game were updated but afaik they weren't on a par with the us version at 60Hz.

[randombs]

I don't like chipping consoles and so am planning on picking up an NTSC console so in future I can buy NTSC games (to avoid the disadvantages associated with PAL).

yeah it's pretty much how Silvergun's laid it out - it's more about release dates than refresh rates (that rhymes!)

basically i doubt we'll see 50hz-only games anymore, at least on the 360 (where setting 60hz mode even causes the dashboard to run at 60hz, which wasn't the case with the previous xbox), and i'm sure sony'll do it too.

as for nintendo, the fact they're saying all games will support 480p as standard should also mean 60hz is guaranteed.

[Lyris]

i'm wondering what the situation is with Sky HD and terrestrial digital HD. according to the pics on Idiot Toys, the terrestrial stuff was running in 1080i and that, indicating 60Hz...

HDTV broadcasts in Europe are in 50hz to save bandwidth and to allow better backwards compatibility with old PAL stuff. And also just because a lot of TV studio's stuff is 50hz-centric.

But as you say, since all HDTVs in Europe support 50 AND 60hz anyway, US 60hz based games can just be run as is.

[theledge]

yeah it's pretty much how Silvergun's laid it out - it's more about release dates than refresh rates (that rhymes!)

basically i doubt we'll see 50hz-only games anymore, at least on the 360 (where setting 60hz mode even causes the dashboard to run at 60hz, which wasn't the case with the previous xbox), and i'm sure sony'll do it too.

as for nintendo, the fact they're saying all games will support 480p as standard should also mean 60hz is guaranteed.

That's great, thanks for everyones help - does that also mean with more modern consoles, that the black borders on the top and bottom are no more?

Also glad to hear someone else notice the 60hz problems with PAL Halo 2 - it was like they had altered the res in a really dirty way to keep a consistant framerate, you could choose 50hz and see what you're doing but you would recieve a filthy framerate!

If developers don't have to alter titles that much from region to region, I may not bother getting an NTSC console as it sounds like the benefits for doing so have now been reduced...I'll continue to keep an eye on this thread to see if anyone elses opnions sway me but for now i'm happy waiting until November for the rumoured price reduction on the 360...

Thanks again for everybodys help.

[randombs]

black borders were only an issue on the ps2. xbox stretches the screen so it's full regardless of frequency (also caused a bit of confusion as i was used to the fact that bordered import games meant they were running in 50hz. i ended up playing us halo 1 in 50hz for about half the game! when i switched it to 60hz it was an amazing difference!).

i noticed the same thing with the cube when playing imports in 50/60hz (the screen size was the same). probably because both xbox and cube have graphics that have their roots in pc graphics cards anyway (nvidia and ati)?

[randombs]

HDTV broadcasts in Europe are in 50hz to save bandwidth and to allow better backwards compatibility with old PAL stuff. And also just because a lot of TV studio's stuff is 50hz-centric

ohhh ok cool.



shots like this had me confused that's all

[Lyris]

Also glad to hear someone else notice the 60hz problems with PAL Halo 2 - it was like they had altered the res in a really dirty way to keep a consistant framerate, you could choose 50hz and see what you're doing but you would recieve a filthy framerate!

Interesting - what did they do to it exactly?

I was constantly being told that European stuff was a-OK, glad I just stuck with US all the way. It's just safer.

[theledge]

Interesting - what did they do to it exactly?

I was constantly being told that European stuff was a-OK, glad I just stuck with US all the way. It's just safer.

I have no idea what they did, but it's really hard to see when playing Halo 2 PAL on 60hz; everything just looks blurry even on an hd set (this problem doesn't seem to occur when playing the game on a 360, only the Xbox). The resolution would be bumped up when playing in 50hz but the framerate would be even slower than Halo 1 on the Xbox.

The way i've always seen the NTSC PAL situation is that developers are optimising everything to the last minute to get the best balance of graphics and framerate they can, when things are changed for PAL, I feel it's done in an uneven, not that well tested sort of way.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I think it is better to buy NTSC consoles, but PAL XBOX 360 is impressive apart from you can't play some sport games or some japanese games.

For Wii and PS3 I will import console from America for Wii and Japan for PS3.

[sj33]

The way i've always seen the NTSC PAL situation is that developers are optimising everything to the last minute to get the best balance of graphics and framerate they can, when things are changed for PAL, I feel it's done in an uneven, not that well tested sort of way.

That sometimes happens, but is rarely the case.

But things are getting better. Now pretty much all TV's support 60Hz, in fact, a HDTV *must* support 60Hz to gain HD-Ready certification in the UK.
With the 360, 60Hz is *required*, and 50Hz is totally optional - many games such as DOA4 and FFXI don't support 50Hz at all (you could argue there's no need today).
Later GameCube games were also 60Hz only, and I hope Nintendo will follow suit with the Wii.

Sony could be a problem though. A large majority of PS2 titles are still 50Hz only, and it remains to be seen what they plan to do with the PS3.

At the end of the day, it's just better to buy NTSC consoles from the get-go, and not have to put up with hideous release dates, if we get the game at all, and praying they will feel us worthy of 60Hz...