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Why QTEs are rubbish

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    Why QTEs are rubbish

    Yes, rubbish. A giant step backwards in gaming. Now anyone who has seen my post in any Shenmue thread knows I love Shenmue. Adore it. But man, it has a lot to answer for. Of course Shenmue didn't invent the QTE and some whole games were big long QTEs but Shenmue seemed to spark a little revival that has carried on since. Most recently I've seen them in the new Tomb Raider and Soul Calibur 3.

    But they're rubbish.

    Early game controls were very simple. Twist paddle one way, paddle moves. Twist paddle other way, paddle moves other way. Very quickly in these games, the controller became an extension of ourselves. Like another muscle. As things got a bit more complicated, we grew with the controllers. Only the newest players of Super Mario Bros were thinking - 'I have to press A to jump...press A...now!'. No. We just jumped. Yes, we were pressing A but our brains were just saying 'jump'. Just as we don't have to think about the process of moving our arms to pick up an object. Movement was limited, yes, but natural.

    In these cases there is direct communication between us and the game world.

    In recent years, where so many options were opened up and our in-game avatars are capable of so many movements, we go through a short learning process and then we become one with the controller just as we did back in SMB. If we want to duck, we duck. If we want to jump, we jump. Roll, we roll. Yes, early on we have to think about what buttons we press and some games (Metal Gear Solid) throw us back into the real world in tutorial hints by referencing the pad that sits in our hands but that is all to get us comfortable. To lead to a point where we don't need to know that pad is there. Each button is our gateway to a move, but we don't have to think about it. The control we have is amazing. Us and the game. Direct connection. Immersion.

    Beautiful.

    And then come QTEs. A letter (symbol, whatever) flashes up. We have to press it in time. This symbol (letter, whatever) rarely has any connection to any action in-game. It's completely abstract. It is not us and the game any more. It's us and the controller. We are thrown right out of the game. Just as the button we press has no connection, the results of that press have no connection. We get a cutscene, or a story branch. Abstract. Some games (like the aforementioned Tomb Raider) sometimes tries give the results a vague connection to the button presses in that a button normally associated with jumping will achieve some in-game cut scene that involves a jump somewhere along the line but the method is still no less abstract.

    If a game wants us to jump in a test of reflexes, have us speed towards a pit and let our reflexes tell us we need to jump. Don't flash and X. X is nothing. An abstract symbol. If we should take a quick right, have something come at us hard from the left and let our instincts guide us. Don't flash a left arrow.

    Lazy game design.

    It's shocking that we have come so far (just look at the level of control we have in game worlds these days) and yet are burdened by such abstract controller-reflex-testing button presses.
    Last edited by Dogg Thang; 23-08-2006, 19:39.

    #2
    All i have to say is Resident Evil 4.
    They work well in that and so im a happy bunny dont play the other games you mentioned so all i can say is if they are intergrated well they can work

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      #3
      I enjoy them.It's not like an entire game is made around QTE's(dragon's lair aside),they're just fun sorta mini-games imo.The ones in the shenmue series,RE4 and God of War are superbly done.

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        #4
        One game I really enjoyed it on was Fahrenheit - which had both left and right commands to complete (not always the same or in time). They were smartly chosen, such as if the character jumps you needed to hit Up with both sticks - simple yeah, but it did feel like a connection.

        The game featured some pretty cool, and lengthy, set-pieces, however it was easy to miss what was going on as you needed to focus on the commands. By the end I was able to 'see through' the commands and watch what was going on. That was neat.

        QTE's...I don't mind them to be honest, so long as there is a reason. Sometimes they are just lazy ways of making a cutscene interactive, but implimented into the game proper they can work - God of War for instance.

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          #5
          Fareheit was jsut an interactive cartoon not to dissimilar from dragons lair, and having huge symbols obscure the action, nice... was a real Limp Biscuit

          Theyre in Dead rising too kinda...

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            #6
            They work better when they're occaisional as in Resi 4 and God of War. I especially liked the way everything slowed down just before the pivotal moment of action (or inaction). It hightens your anticipation so that you go 'AVE IT!' when the blows fall

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              #7
              They work so well in Resi because they are chained so quickly, there is NO scope for error and you need to have lightning quick reactions, ie, just as if you see the gap and jump immediately. In RE4 they allow Capcom to put in sexy animated cut scenes that YOU take part in that would never ever be possible to do with conventional mechanics (at least for now).
              Same with God of war, compared to the ones in tomb raider (which are way too simple) they act to heighten immersion and give scope for some excellent set peices.
              So Dogg I think you're wrong ;p
              But as long as they are done right!

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                #8
                Originally posted by Blair
                In RE4 they allow Capcom to put in sexy animated cut scenes that YOU take part in that would never ever be possible to do with conventional mechanics (at least for now).
                Now I haven't actually played RE4 so that could well be the exception. But even what you are saying here suggests more that you are being wowed by the cut scenes. That sounds like the old fashioned 'interactive movies' thing that quite rightly fell flat on its face. As it seems to be a popular choice here I could be missing something - compared with something like Shenmue, what quality sets RE4's QTEs apart?

                I have played God of War however and enjoyed it but that was in spite of the QTE mechanics, not because of them. Heighten immersion? 'Hammer Triangle to watch the movie' couldn't be further from 'immersion' in my opinion.

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                  #9
                  I think you so missing the point.
                  QTE were in Shenmue not just help make it simple to play , where even kids could pull off stunning looking movies with a simple press of a button, But the main reason they were done is so you can get diff views of the action and make it much more film like that would be imposible to do in real time and still make the game playable. Like when you jump over a gap, in QTE mode the camera can be placed inside the gap to give a sence of scale to the jump ect.

                  RE 4, GOW made great use of them, and Besker wasn't too bad either

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                    #10
                    I like many of the other people here don't mind them when they are done well.

                    I will say though that I really like them in some respects as it's often a humerous way to enjoy even more death scenes for some games. Especially like Tomb Raider, and Fahrenheit which whilst being a FANTASTIC title, had some hilarious ones where you could just fall down dead - which really did make me laugh......

                    That might just be me of course with my unique sense of humour!

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                      #11
                      Not a fan of these either - when I'm watching a cutscene, I want to be able to sit back, relax and watch the pretty graphics / story progression. (especially after beating a particularly tough boss etc) I don't want to then either miss a QTE and have to replay that section again, or watch the same bloody cutscene again. (like they did in Resi 4 iirc)

                      Completely breaks immersion for me - don't see what purpose they serve at all, other than to annoy.

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                        #12
                        I think QTEs are great. They're a cute reminder that, under all the clever tech/tricks that the game devs use to make you believe there's a real world/characters there, it all boils down to Right, Down, Right, Down, Shootshootshoot!

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                          #13
                          The most surprising thing about this thread is that Dogg Thang hasn't played Resident Evil 4. What are you waiting for? It's one of the real standout games of this generation.

                          As for QTE's - they're harmless and mark a great illusion in allowing you to pull off chereographed moves in a fashion any current gameplay system couldn't realistically allow outside of a fighter.

                          There's so much negativity going on right now. I haven't helped myself with my recent cynicism towards the PS3, but not every smallish thing has to be chomped on.

                          I thought Resident Evil 4 and God of War integrated them well. Shenmue too, considering that unlike most QTE systems, many of the scenes altered themselves to accomodate a variety of mispressed buttons.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by anephric
                            They're a cute reminder that, under all the clever tech/tricks that the game devs use to make you believe there's a real world/characters there, it all boils down to Right, Down, Right, Down, Shootshootshoot!
                            I think that's exactly what my problem is with them.

                            In a game world, I like to feel I control my character. Even if the game is set up so that there is only one correct choice, I react. I make that quick decision. Just like some of the crazy sections at the end of TR1. In QTEs, we become the game dev's preforming monkey and nothing more. The game controls us.

                            If only the makers of Sonic had realised way back then that QTEs would be popular - they could have advertised inputting the level select code as a 'gameplay feature'.


                            Originally posted by Concept
                            There's so much negativity going on right now. I haven't helped myself with my recent cynicism towards the PS3, but not every smallish thing has to be chomped on.
                            Concept, I feel that this is more than a little unfair. It's like you're equating my thread with the Sony-bashing that is so popular these days. Is my thread negative? Yes. But it comes from a place of love. A dream that we can do better. That we can let cut scenes be cut scenes and, in gameplay, give us our characters back. Given this is a gaming board, I would have thought gamplay features would be up for discussion - regardless of how positive or negative the starting point. Disagree with my views on QTEs (as most are!) by all means, but there's no need to damn the creation of the topic.

                            And this -
                            Originally posted by Concept
                            The most surprising thing about this thread is that Dogg Thang hasn't played Resident Evil 4. What are you waiting for?
                            You know, I have no idea. RE began to bore me to death. I'm totally aware that RE4 is supposed to give the series the kick in the pants it needed and it looks excellent but I just never got round to it. It's on my 'to get' list.

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                              #15
                              I agree i do not like QTE except in god of war as i knew i was going to encounter them and was prepared

                              In resi evil 4 they always took me by surprise and usually died the first couple of times(they do not give you much time to react)

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