Entitlements. Not what you think?

[katamari]

Based on the content of one of Sony's recent patents, I no longer think that Sony's "entitlements" will be the answer to XBox360's "acheivements".

I think they're actually going to be Sony's online currency...and part of a much bigger plan to take profits back from the likes of EB. I've blogged up my thoughts here.

I'm actually in two minds about this. I can see good and bad in it, and the potential for disaster. I could, of course, be totally wrong. Thoughts?

[Family Fry]

Theres always potential for disaster when sony is involved it seems nowaydays!
So what they are saying is when you buy a game you get an i.d code which registers to the consoles own serial, if someone wants to buy a 2nd hand copy of said game they will have to purchse a new code for the system which will cost them cash/points, you as the previous owner will recieve Entitlements for doing this and sony will recieve the cash?!
What if your console goes tits up and you have 10 games?
What about GAMES 10 day return policy and console/game store refund policies generally? Are these all going to be affected because of this.
One things for sure if sony do destroy the 2nd hand/sell on/trade market, like it seems they are rumouring to do all the time now, some retail stores especially indies where the profit margin can sometimes be awful with supermarkets and online cutting into margins deep, these stores will drop them like a big bag of spanners and so will a lot of customers.
BUT at the moment this is just speculation based on a patent, so who knows where this one could go, hopefully we will know more come TGS in under a fortnights time.

[katamari]

What if your console goes tits up and you have 10 games?

I imagine that would be handled in the same way that Microsoft are handling XBLA games on 360's that go tits up.

When my 360 died, they gave me a replacement and simply updated their servers to show that my gamertag was associated with a new machine ID. The Arcade titles I had purchased on my original 360 all then worked on the new one.

As for 10 day return policies, well yeah that's finished. Sony aren't trying to stop the used game market this time, rather they're trying to control it and make it profitable for them instead of the game stores.

[EvilBoris]

This sounds like an overly complicated system and I don't think Sony would dare be that bold, also MS didn't let acheivement points have any value to buy things with, because they would have to pay tax on any item bought using the currency.

Also retailers eyes would go red and set on fire if this were to be true, europe has received a big enough screwing this christmas. The last thing GAME wants is to lose sales on 2nd hand stuff too

[EvilBoris]

When my 360 died, they gave me a replacement and simply updated their servers to show that my gamertag was associated with a new machine ID. The Arcade titles I had purchased on my original 360 all then worked on the new one.

They didn't do that to me, or anyone else

The information for which console the live games belong to is actually stored within the game, not on MS servers. You can always play your purchased games on any console when you are connected to LIVE. Other People can acutally play your live arcade game as long as you are connected to Live.
Its when you try to play the game offline that you get the problems, I suspect that yours won't be any different to anyone elses should you try and play one of your arcade games whilst not connected to LIVE.

[Dogg Thang]

The last thing GAME wants is to lose sales on 2nd hand stuff too

That's true but I'm not sure Sony (or any other games company) would be all that concerned about that. The 2nd hand games end is a little odd in how prevalent it is in major retail chains. I'd have a hard time thinking of any other product that has the same 2nd hand presence.

As the only people making any money from 2nd hand sales are the retailers themselves and, going by what the likes of GAME pay for 2nd hand games and what they charge for them, it would seem they are making a massive profit at the expense of games companys/devs/publishers etc.

I have to say, if I were Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft), I'd be looking to cut that out or get in on the action too.

[EvilBoris]

These big retailers could essentially make a format sink or swim.
We've all seen it when they have a special offer on title X and it ends up numner 1 in the charts.

[Dogg Thang]

Possibly. I'm not as convinced that their impact is always that strong. I'm thinking back to all of the cries of 'GAME hates Nintendo' not so long ago because they had the GC stuff stuck at the back and then did the same with the DS, launching the PSP right at the front of the shops - like it was GAME deciding what would be a success and what wouldn't. Well, I'm seeing a shift now in their shops - PSP stuck at the back and DS right at the front. GAME aren't deciding what sells. They are following what sells.

That said, of course retailers have an impact. Enough of an impact to negate the worth of going after or cutting out that second hand market? I wouldn't think so.

[MartyG]

You have to look at why the 2nd hand market is there. The principle reason I think is because games retail for ?40-50 a go. It is expensive, even though there's plenty of value for money in many games and I prefer to purchase my stuff new, not everyone can afford to buy lots of new games, so those people will either stick to 1 or 2 big hits or wait for prices to drop anyway.

Trying to eliminte the 2nd hand market isn't going to suddenly generate the same level of sales in new games because the money simply isn't there to spend in the first place, but this gets me the most; why should Sony dictate whether I can sell on a game to someone else after I've finished playing it? And what happens down the line when games go out of print and the late convert can no longer pick up older releases. Ever tried to buy PS2 launch titles new recently?

I'd seriously doubt this is going to happen though ( and the locking patent is ancient old and been discussed here a number of times ) ; it'd be yet another death blow to PS3.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning, Marty. Actually I completely agree. But I can't see games companies seeing it the same way. There are many, many other things for sale at around ?40-50 and higher that don't have a second hand market that has been adopted and pushed by major retailers. It's a very unusual situation.

You're absolutely right that eliminating that isn't going to generate the same level of sales but that's just the same as the piracy argument (which is also true). However, in the likes of GAME, you'll often see a new game at one price right beside a preowned game for maybe only ?5 cheaper (if even) and many people will go for the cheaper one - because it's right there in the major retailer. The difference is that selling that copy gives no money to those who made the game. You can sell Halo 20 times and only that first sale will generate revenue for the games companies. Aside from that one initial sale, from the perspective of generating revenue for games devs/publishers/etc, it's no better than selling a bootleg copy.

There will always be second hand markets (as there is for just about everything else). The difference here is that it is accepted as normal in the major retail chains. Like I say, this is very unusual.

[MartyG]

There are better ways of tackling the situation than implementing a system like this though, which is only going to end up pissing people off and causing yet another PR disaster.

For example, why not negotiate with the likes of GAME for a percentage of profit from 2nd hand sales? That way everyone wins.

[Dogg Thang]

Totally agree. As a consumer, I think this is a terrible idea. I was simply talking in general terms of Sony (or any other games comany) not really caring how it impacts on GAME's second hand sales (which is where I started). How it impacts on the consumer is a whole different matter.

[dataDave]

What if you're not online?

Most serious gamers are these days*. The casual/chav/little jonny type aren't though.

The main reason the PS1/PS2 was successful was because of the ease of piracy/2nd hand market. If Sony abolish all that they're totally ****o'd.

* Then again, most serious gamers import.

[DeathAdder]

I would buy fewer new games if I was unable to trade them in if I didn't like them, so assuming there are others like me, the second hand market is not all bad news for console makers.

[EvilBoris]

I would buy fewer new games if I was unable to trade them in if I didn't like them, so assuming there are others like me, the second hand market is not all bad news for console makers.

Thats one side of it I hadn't thought of, that I actually trade my games in.