When Do Microtransactions become too much

[MartyG]

I've posted many times about value for money on Xbox Live Market Place stuff, I'm sure that my opinion on the state of information and pricing is well known.

What I'm interested in bringing up for discussion here is at what point does the microtransaction thing become too much and perhaps extending into the whole digital distribution and ownership issue.

What is your tipping point? When does the locking out of features and pricing of digital distrubution make you sit up and say, "Now that's just not value for money". What is your threshold in value and service?

What I'm not interested in seeing in this thread is people bitching about how people should stop complaining about pricing/features/lock outs.

To the topic at hand.

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I think my main concern with microtransactions is the rust aspect of it - the creep in, the way that it can appear that you're not actually spending very much money. I can liken it to a night out on the town: It's like going for a beer - if you bought everything you were going to drink for the night in one hit, you'd go "Oh ****, that's a lot of cash", but buy them one and a time and you don't notice, especially by the fifth pint. Once you've bought into the initial game, you're going to keep adding bits if you enjoy it - and spending a little at a time goes unnoticed. Feature creep.

As it gets pushed further and further and people accept it more and more, that's when we're screwed, because it becomes the norm, will we notice that ownership is slowly eroding away?

[TonyDA]

Microtransactions are too much - full stop. A game should be released when it is finished, and then the developers should move on to something else, whether that's a sequel or a new game. The 360 is a fantastic console, and I've played it far more in its first year than any other console I've owned in the past, but we've seen microtransactions on many games, all of which have added cost to an already high price:

Oblivion. Game of the year contender, and a huge task to complete from the day the game hit the shelves. Some add-on packs have been released since, but are they needed to complete the game? No. Do they enhance the game for some players? Yes. Why weren't they included in the first place? If they weren't ready when the game shipped, why not release them for free?

GRAW/PGR3. Two of the best selling games on the 360, released without a full set of 1000 achievement points. You have to download the add-on packs, at a further cost, to be able to complete the game fully. As we've seen, many 360 owners love the achievement side of things, and this could be a money-spinner for publishers; charge ?50 for the game, then another ?5 to unlock the last few achievements.

Lumines. A fantastic game, but much of it is missing. The game is previewed with a Madonna "skin" and music. The game is released, and there is nothing like it included with the already high initial cost. Many of the game modes will only become fully operational upon the download - at further cost, and possibly not until next year - of an additional pack.

If we're expected to pay ?50 for a game (and I know most of us don't, but that's what the RRP is) it should be finished. Played GRAW and want more? Then finish it completely in single-player, make the most of the multiplayer modes and wait for the sequel...because that is what the developers of GRAW should be working on, not an additional way of taking more money for the game we've already bought.

In summary, a worrying addition to next-gen gaming.

[NekoFever]

I don't mind them when they're done right. I think Oblivion, horse armour aside, is actually an excellent example because the added content is just an option for those who can't get enough and it's reasonably priced. It becomes bad when content is obviously excluded just because they want to charge you again for it (Lumines, I'm looking at you). A lot of this stuff is released when interest is on the wane anyway, so it's not like they're putting it out in its prime to extort some money.

One crappy example of downloadable content is Return to Castle Wolfenstein on the Xbox. It had three or four downloadable maps, but in all cases it was a file to unlock them on the disc. They were actually there on the disc, unusable until they decided to enable the download. Admittedly they weren't paid downloads (that would have just been evil) but it was crap anyway.

[Paulos G]

Microtransactions are too much - full stop. A game should be released when it is finished, and then the developers should move on to something else, whether that's a sequel or a new game.

Whereas I like getting extra added to a game I already enjoy. I have had so much fun out of the Chapter 2 add on for GRAW that I will happily pay for Chapter 3.

Oblivion. Game of the year contender, and a huge task to complete from the day the game hit the shelves. Some add-on packs have been released since, but are they needed to complete the game? No. Do they enhance the game for some players? Yes. Why weren't they included in the first place? If they weren't ready when the game shipped, why not release them for free?

Why not charge for them? Nobody has to buy them. I didn't and I don't feel that I've missed anything. I may buy them when I finally complete the game and am glad I have the option to do so.

GRAW/PGR3. Two of the best selling games on the 360, released without a full set of 1000 achievement points. You have to download the add-on packs, at a further cost, to be able to complete the game fully. As we've seen, many 360 owners love the achievement side of things, and this could be a money-spinner for publishers; charge £50 for the game, then another £5 to unlock the last few achievements.

The extra achievements for GRAW/PGR do not require extra expenditure. They relate to freely available updates.

Lumines. A fantastic game, but much of it is missing. The game is previewed with a Madonna "skin" and music. The game is released, and there is nothing like it included with the already high initial cost. Many of the game modes will only become fully operational upon the download - at further cost, and possibly not until next year - of an additional pack.

The biggest problem with Lumines is the way it was described. Had it been made clearer what you were getting for the points the happier I would have been.

If we're expected to pay £50 for a game (and I know most of us don't, but that's what the RRP is) it should be finished. Played GRAW and want more? Then finish it completely in single-player, make the most of the multiplayer modes and wait for the sequel...because that is what the developers of GRAW should be working on, not an additional way of taking more money for the game we've already bought.

Further to your first point, I am happy for the developers to work on extra content for a game and will gladly pay for what I think is extra value.

In summary, a worrying addition to next-gen gaming.

In summary, an excellent optional way to get additional value from a game I enjoy.

[JazzFunk]

I think the point is, not everybody uses Live. And if you're buying an unfinished game to begin with and the only way of 'finishing' it is to subscribe to Live (ca$h) and pay for updates (more ca$h), then that stinks.

Microtransactions? Teh Evil!

[stormbreak]

I have no problems with them if it is not on the disc, something like GRAWs downloadable content is fine as they give more levels for 1200 points.

I an fine with episodic content and also some little bonuses (Like horse armour) but if they need to be unlocked by paying for them (Assuming they were alreaady on disc, or just rushing the game and charging for the content they could of put on disc) then I am against it.

Apparently you have to pay for cheats in Tiger Woods

[Paulos G]

And if you're buying an unfinished game to begin with and the only way of 'finishing' it is to subscribe to Live (ca$h) and pay for updates (more ca$h), then that stinks.

And if that were happening I'd agree with you. I've bought over 20 games, all of which can be completed without any additional expediture. Those that have added achievements have done so with free updates obtainable using the free Silver Live service.

Changes in technology bring changes in the way business is done. Sometimes it'll seem good, other times maybe not. So far, however, I think there is a lot of good value content available at a reasonable price. I just don't but the stuff I think is ovepriced *cough* horse armour *cough*.

What is your tipping point? When does the locking out of features and pricing of digital distrubution make you sit up and say, "Now that's just not value for money". What is your threshold in value and service?

I hope I'm not straying too far from your point, Marty. If we do start getting unfinished games which we have to pay to complete then I'd reach my tipping point.

...will we notice that ownership is slowly eroding away?

Can you give an example of what you think eroded ownership would look like?

[MartyG]

By ownership eroding away I mean that you've bought your digital download, and it's there, and you're happy because you're enjoying your game - but then you want to trade it in for something else, and you find you can't because it's tied to your gamertag and machine. And if you're not happy, you can't get a refund.

[Paulos G]

Thanks for clarifying that. A few off the cuff ideas in response:

1) Cost: is the initial price for digital downloads less than what we?d pay for having a physical disc. If yes, then does that go some way to offsetting the loss of being able to trade a game in?

2) Digital trade-ins: what if when I buy a game digitally I can get a percentage of the cost back using an online trade-in service? If the content is on my HDD and I access a trade-in area of Live (or whatever service I?m using) perhaps I could chose to remove the game in exchange for Microsoft points (or equivalent) which can then be used towards a new purchase.

3) Unhappy: in terms of wanting a refund I would hope that we?d have more try-before-you-buy options available (a la XBLA) meaning we wouldn?t be taking as many chances.

[Lazlow]

Im all in favour for the use of micro-transactions as long as they are implemented by way of choice.

What do I mean by this? When I purchase a game I want to be able to experience it to its full potential straight from the disk. Im already paying in excess of ?45 for this game and i expect my moneys worth. I understand that development costs are ridiculously high for this generation of consoles so im prepared to pay that ?45 because I should be getting the exact same product as that of the last gen i.e the full game.

This is where micro-transactions should be used for games. Once ive brought the game and am enjoying to the extent that I want more of the same then by all means ill pay those 800 points to add to my game. This purchase is a choice purchase, by not having it I lose nothing of the original game. The option is there for me to enhance my play experience if I choose to.

One problem with these transactions as demonstrated by the Xbox Marketplace is that they are ludicrisly overpriced. 1200 points for the GRAW Chapter 2 pack, ill pass thanks. The fact that these points also do not translate into real money is down right sly and filthy by Microsoft. It can lead people into spending money they wouldnt otherwise because 1200 points can seem like nothing. (This is why I applaud Nintendos pricing of their 'Wii Points')

The final problem I have with these transactions is only a temporary one. Ill use an example to explain. The new Tigers Woods game recently released on previous and current gen systems has the ability to use cheat codes to get items etc in the game. Now thats fine, if you want to use that then so be it. However it is not fine when EA decides they will only allow access to these codes on the 360 version by way of a market place purchase. Sorry EA, what the hell do you think your doing? If I want to cheat on the PS2 version I can just hit up gamefaqs and enter a few button presses and bam ive got my goodies but on the 360 you want me to pay money for it?!

That to be quite honest just takes the piss. However as I said, this is only a temporary problem. Once the previous gen fades into no existence we wont have this problem. Not the problem of paying for something other users dont but just the fact it wont appear we are getting ripped off.

So thats my view of micro-transactions. They walk a very thin line for being anything positive for the industry but it can be done.

[JazzFunk]

And if that were happening I'd agree with you. I've bought over 20 games, all of which can be completed without any additional expediture. Those that have added achievements have done so with free updates obtainable using the free Silver Live service.

Changes in technology bring changes in the way business is done. Sometimes it'll seem good, other times maybe not. So far, however, I think there is a lot of good value content available at a reasonable price. I just don't but the stuff I think is ovepriced *cough* horse armour *cough*.

That is all well and good - for now. I just think that the more and more profitable these things become, the more they will be perceived as standard and people will get into the mindset of just splashing the cash without really thinking how much they're spending. I'm just curious to see where microtransactions lead, once they've been 'broken in'. Hmmmm....

Obviously, you enjoy Live, and I'm not knocking that, it's all good.

(just realised that 'Live' is 'Evil' backwards.... )

[Mr M0by]

A few off the cuff ideas in response:

2) Digital trade-ins: what if when I buy a game digitally I can get a percentage of the cost back using an online trade-in service? If the content is on my HDD and I access a trade-in area of Live (or whatever service I?m using) perhaps I could chose to remove the game in exchange for Microsoft points (or equivalent) which can then be used towards a new purchase.

Retailers buy second hand product from us because they see an extra profit opportunity from selling the same item twice. Microsoft aren't going to pay us to uninstall software when it makes no difference to them whether we've ever even played it since the original purchase.

Point 3 is more likely though.

[MartyG]

Quite - so if we're happy to buy into this stuff, we're happy to remove our ownership.

Surely this is a bad thing?

[eastyy]

Not that keen on microtransactions

it annoyed me in oblivion for a few reasons

1.The fact that in the previous game morrowind there were free offical addons
2.(for the PC version anyway) there are probably alot better plugin for free
3.They released micro transaction items first before releasing a patch to fix the problems

[Concrete donkey]

I had my 360 replaced last month, and now the only arcade game I brought online has reverted back to being a demo. If I have to buy all these microtransactions again everytime I need a replacement machine, I think I'll give the whole thing a miss. Plus, will they be transferable when larger capacity Hard Disks come out ? I dont want to keep switching HD's like they were memory cards.