Is 360 piracy a big thing now?

[Leon Retro]

The fact that this can only be done for piracy makes it pretty indefensible, in my opinion. At least modchips and boot discs have the ability to play imports, but this is only for copied games.

People can whine all they want about the price of games but they're a luxury - not a right - and as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to pay for them you shouldn't get them. Why should I, as someone who has a moral problem with piracy and so pays for my games, have to give my hard-earned money for games when you don't? It's not just the developers who get ****ed over.

</rant>

You'll get this thread locked and give good debate a bad name- calm down

You think games are a luxury? Should they be a luxury? Why are they a luxury?

These are the points I'm trying to address.

I personally don't think games should be seen as valuable items. I buy games for a hight price, and 98% of the time, they are worth dirt a year on. ( sometimes as little as six months )

I think piracy is a shame, but I fully understand it's existence.

If piracy wasn't possible, I have no doubt the market conditions would change, and games would be far cheaper.

Lots of people wouldn't bother with gaming if piracy wasn't an option. That's because they like games, but can't really afford the price.

Games are highly priced, so many people rely on copies, which means publishers charge more for the games.

Publishers need to break this cycle, the ball is in their court. They need to bring pricing down, and thus create a healthier, more positive game market.

I don't blame people that use copied software, they are gamers who often can't truly afford videogames.

Those that can afford videogames should be happy and content, but never arrogant or selfish enough to say gaming should be the preserve of the well-off!

If buying videogames ceased to be a realistic option for me, and someone offered me cheap copies, I would buy them. Who am I harming, if I couldn't afford legitimate games in the first place?

Maybe console manufacturers need to set an example and sell their own software for a more affordable price, thereby creating a standard industry price that could be low and fair. I think this is the way to go!

[Byg]

Well, I do disagree with most of the last post. Do you think games are _not_ a luxury? Surely games are inessential items? Their very name implies this. What gives people the _right_ to have and play a video game?

If people don't like the price of games, then there are many other avenues to obtain cheaper games (not piracy) that I have mentioned. It's the greed factor that makes people want the latest and greatest and then complain about the price. You mention about superfluous bumpf that makes games more expensive but it is precisely these 'bumpf' games that are pirated most. And how do people who can't afford games afford consoles in the first place? Surely if you have monetary constraints you have more worries than where to get your videogames from.

Those that can afford videogames should be happy and content, but never arrogant or selfish enough to say gaming should be the preserve of the well-off!

No-one has said that as (again) there are cheaper means of gaming. But by your logic if someone can't afford a movie ticket or an opera ticket then they should still be able to go and see it anyway. Do you agree with this?

If piracy wasn't possible, I have no doubt the market conditions would change, and games would be far cheaper.

If buying videogames ceased to be a realistic option for me, and someone offered me cheap copies, I would buy them. Who am I harming, if I couldn't afford legitimate games in the first place?

You are contradicting yourself in your own post. If games are higher due to piracy then we are all paying these higher prices due to the pirates. So by your own logic it is _at least_ the law-abiding consumer who is being harmed.

[Leon Retro]

My points have been clear and precise. I'm on the side of the gamers, and fairness.

Now I know why the ' fair play ' campaign failed.


I can only assume some people like or want games to be an elitist expensive pastime.


Why defend the industry, when it is so clear they are greedy?

Any rational person would say " Yes.. game pricing is ridiculous, and greedy, but I accept that! " ... Any other opinion could only be spoken by the dilutional, or wealthy!

Now.. I'm not stupid enough to think business is fair, and that the aim isn't to milk consumers for all their worth, but the videogame industries greed and many negative pratices, are still true and real.


I'm not attacking the creators of videogames, the people who have the talent and imagination to deliver wonder and enjoyment to millions.

I'm pointing out the increasing greed within the industry, mainly from publishers, who use hype and propaganda to justify all the extra costs devoted gamers are asked to pay these days.


I have gone over the many fallacies the industry has spouted in defence of high pricing.

1. Cartridge media is the reason for high prices.

2. Piracy is the cause of high pricing.

3. Lack of mainstream gamers is a reason for high pricing.

4. Improved visuals are the reason for high pricing.

None of the above wash with me.

Game media is now dirt cheap.

High pricing is a big factor why people use copied games.

There are more gamers now than ever, the market is mainstream.

If improved visuals did play a part in game pricing, we would all be paying ?60+ for 360 games. It would be hilarious to see game pricing rise with every generation. How much would games cost in 2020? ?100+

I choose not to believe any of the lies spoken by publishers. They simply want more money, and they are doing everything to get it.

As gamers, we choose to buy videogames, but we should never kiss the ass of publishers and believe their hollow words.

Why defend them?

PEACE!

[Leon Retro]

You are contradicting yourself in your own post. If games are higher due to piracy then we are all paying these higher prices due to the pirates. So by your own logic it is _at least_ the law-abiding consumer who is being harmed.

It does sound a bit contradictory, but you took it out of context within lots of my posts and thoughts.

I basically mean, if piracy wasn't possible, not as many people would buy hardware, which would result in a much smaller market, and therefore the industry would see all these potential gamers, and realise it's the high pricing that puts-them-off gaming, so there would be a good chance game pricing would be lowered to attract less serious gamers.

I would definitely use copied games if I was so poor it was impossible to buy a retail title. Did I say I was perfect?

[bangaio]

[QUOTE=Leon

None of the above wash with me.

Game media is now dirt cheap.

High pricing is a big factor why people use copied games.

There are more gamers now than ever, the market is mainstream.

If improved visuals did play a part in game pricing, we would all be paying ?60+ for 360 games. It would be hilarious to see game pricing rise with every generation. How much would games cost in 2020? ?100+

[/QUOTE]



Come off it, do you really think games magic themselves onto a dvd? The media argument is rubish - people make games and have to be paid.....teams are bigger than ever yet in real terms games are cheaper then ever before.

As a rule if money doubles every 10 years - which it has done historically - a ?40 game form 10 years ago - well you work it out.

[Leon Retro]

I was just pointing out that one of the many reasons publishers used to justify high gaming costs in the 16bit days- was the cartridge media.

Many industry people said CD media would mean lower pricing.

Some of us actually believed them, but now look at DVD media, and the few pennies it costs, and realise they were talking rubbish.

Why should I believe anything they say?

You and others who defend the industry, seem to forget that it is booming, and that industry top-dogs aren't suffering at all, in fact they are living better than ever, and all because their hype and propaganda works.

We pay ?30-40 for games, but why should we be happy with that price.

I only pay the price, because I'm an obssesive gamer, who justifies my purchases. ( and it's obvious I'm rarely happy! )

I can understand why many people scoff at such ridiculous pricing, and why many gamers resort to copied games.

Fair Play? Sometimes I think us gamers are too eager to be taken for mugs!

[buster_broon]

If piracy wasn't possible, I have no doubt the market conditions would change, and games would be far cheaper.

Lots of people wouldn't bother with gaming if piracy wasn't an option. That's because they like games, but can't really afford the price.

Games are highly priced, so many people rely on copies, which means publishers charge more for the games.

i disagree with 2 of those statements

i reckon if piracy didnt exist we would still be in the days of ?49.99 games, just like the 16-bit era as companies could charge what they wanted

but i agree that people choose a system that has copies as an option and you may disagree but the Xbox was failing badly until it was hacked, then suddenly it flourished

game prices have came down mainly because of other factors:

• cheaper components
• more people are into games
• more competition between software creators
• piracy is rife

just cant see how a publisher thinks to himself that everybody copies games so lets raise the games price - commerce doesnt work like that

even now where alot of new games for the older gen systems are ?29.99 and below alot of companies are goin out of business or getting gobbled up by the huge companies

[smokedog]

Why defend the industry, when it is so clear they are greedy?

Any rational person would say " Yes.. game pricing is ridiculous, and greedy, but I accept that! " ... Any other opinion could only be spoken by the dilutional, or wealthy!

I don't find games that over priced, expensive yes but anything sub ?40 I find semi-acceptable. Games development take alot of time and resources, as your average game takes 12 months of work. Alot of games companies goes under, is that because they are too greedy?

When you factor in the amount of entertainment your can get from a game compared to say something like a film. A game is expersive yes but you do get your moneys worth.

[Leon Retro]

but i agree that people choose a system that has copies as an option and you may disagree but the Xbox was failing badly until it was hacked, then suddenly it flourished

You guys, are in a strange way, backing-up my opinions.

We must agree that many gamers wouldn't bother with videogames if they had to fork-out ?30-40 per game.

That is my point. The market would be much smaller, if piracy wasn't an option. Many people wouldn't buy the hardware in the first place.

In my world ( which may be reality ) ... many people I know, of all ages, think game pricing is way too high. They think only obsessive addicts would justify the costs. ( I tend to agree! )


The industry takes advantage of the serious commited gamers of this world.

It's not about us though, as people have said, many of us here have paid ?90+ for games.

I know why people pirate, and I know why games are so expensive.

The reasons used to explain the above problems, are just industry rhetoric, and I choose not to believe a word of it.

Piracy isn't as sinister and nasty as people are led to believe, and game pricing isn't as innocent and justified.

[Leon Retro]

I don't find games that over priced, expensive yes but anything sub ?40 I find semi-acceptable. Games development take alot of time and resources, as your average game takes 12 months of work. Alot of games companies goes under, is that because they are too greedy?

When you factor in the amount of entertainment your can get from a game compared to say something like a film. A game is expersive yes but you do get your moneys worth.

I can buy a favourite film on dvd, and it will last me a life time. It won't suddenly become a weaker experience in any way. ( though mpeg2 will obviously look a bit dodgy )

Many games to me are ' products of the moment ' .. they offer some thrills, but soon become old-hat.

I don't see games as luxury items, or ones that should be expensive. The way games generally work these days, we have bigger better titles every 6months to a year, and the past product becomes worthless, often going from being worth ?40, to ?5.

Obviously... the industry don't give a damn about factors like this. They keep serving-up bigger, shiner versions of past games, and expect us to pay high prices.

Now.. we all choose to buy the games, that is obvious, and pretty irrelevant.

The ironic thing is usually the fact that the more original/unique titles are seen as less worthy by publishers and casual gamers, therefore being cheaper, even if they offer just as much gameplay, or long lasting value than the more hyped big name titles.

Low pricing would help smaller devs to a degree, and creators of original products.

When you have these big bloated hype ridden titles selling for ?40, what chance do the more unique cheaper titles have? People are only human, and get sucked into buying the titles they see as less risky!

If all games were more affordable, it would level the playing field!

[buster_broon]

You guys, are in a strange way, backing-up my opinions.

We must agree that many gamers wouldn't bother with videogames if they had to fork-out ?30-40 per game.

That is my point. The market would be much smaller, if piracy wasn't an option. Many people wouldn't buy the hardware in the first place.

but how do you know how the market would be without piracy?

unsure how you state in a strange way i was backing up your statement when i actually posted that i agreed with that point

piracy wasnt rife with the 16-bit machines and they sold like hot cakes, even when the wildcard/pro fighter was available - people still bought games at ?49.99 a plenty

its a moot point

if there was no piracy and games were ?40 - people would have to pay it and you cant just decide who would and who wouldnt pay it

people take piracy as the easy option, take that option away and there isnt any other options

but as stated its an easy option for people no matter how well off they are or arnt

[buster_broon]

Low pricing would help smaller devs to a degree, and creators of original products.

how would it

3 - 5 years in developement + low cost = devs closed down or eaten away

[Dirty Sanchez]

By your argument Leon if you retarded your game purchases by 12 months or so you could pick up every title for ?5. Wonderful, you get great games at a great price.

Problem with that?

If you wanted to morally cover yourself you could pirate your stuff now(which you obviously do) and buy the original second hand for pennies in a year or two.

Problem with that?

[Leon Retro]

unsure how you state in a strange way i was backing up your statement when i actually posted that i agreed with that point

You guys should be lawyers!

I wasn't referering to the point you agreed with , I actually meant all the disagreements are in a strange way backing-up my case, though obviously people don't realise it.

I can only speak hypothetically ( I haven't got a time-machine )

What I do say is based on observation and knowledge though, but some of it has to be speculation.


Now you and others seem quite sure of your beliefs, as I am of mine.

No one should ever be arrogant enough to think they are totally right, there are truths within every opinion.

There is no doubt business needs to shrewd, manipulative, and greedy to succeed.

I'm just pointing out that I find the videogame industry guilty of all the above; even if it makes sense for them to be!

Lots of people seem to paint piracy as a black&white picture, but I try to see beyond that, and understand the deeper issues.

The same with game pricing- I don't take industry rhetoric as fact!

It amazes me that so many people are quick to defend the industry, when like me, they should have reason to not believe and trust.

The industry are far too arrogant and devious to ever be transparent regarding these issues though.

[Dirty Sanchez]

So you pirate then?