Is 360 piracy a big thing now?

[Leon Retro]

I think ?50 is too expensive for a new game particularly when it seems most of them need patches.

As others have said if prices were cheaper I would certainly buy more or at least on launch.

I haven't got my 360 yet but it will be a JAP machine and the games will come from Play/Yesasia.

I accept that compared to the C64 days development costs have got higher, the games are more technical in every department but gaming is more mainstream and games now sell a hell of a lot more copies i.e. Halo2 sales would have totally eclipsed the likes of Uridium etc.

I was happy to pay ?40 for one or two Xbox titles I thought worth to preorder but I would still like the price point lower.

You buys games, but you're not happy with the pricing. Well done... for being an honest, level-headed person!

I'm not being positive towards you, just because you share some of my views, but because the truth is the truth, and that is everything.


The facts I've stated, personal feelings, and overall stance, is one held my many people I know, and I have no doubt many more.

When people justify all the high pricing, they are disregarding the many reasons why games should be cheaper now.

I have spent years listening to videogame industry rhetoric, and as a rational person, I find nearly all of it hollow and untrue.

Thanks for having the guts to post!

[Byg]

You buys games, but you're not happy with the pricing. Well done... for being an honest, level-headed person!

I'm not being positive towards you, just because you share some of my views, but because the truth is the truth, and that is everything.

Eh? You are getting rather deep there! Although I'm not sure what your point is. Let's say I want to buy a new car but I'm not happy with the price. I wish they were cheaper. Maybe I'll wait a couple of years and then that car will cost less second-hand. Or maybe I'll buy a less super-duper car which doesn't include all the frills. Does any of this mean that all new cars should be cheaper in price now?

When people justify all the high pricing, they are disregarding the many reasons why games should be cheaper now.

I have not seen many posts of yours giving valid reasons for the 'high' price of games. Other than a) piracy means games cost more, and b) the 'bumpf' (which a lot of people like) means that games cost more. I like some bumpf in my games. I'm willing to pay for it as are a lot of people. If you object to the price, why don't people wait until it is reduced, buy it on eBay cheaper, rent it for little money etc etc? Or avoid it altogether.

A direct answer to some questions would be nice!

[Grim Reaper]

Debate is healthy, but you many of you guys are not only behaving like it's bad for your health, but you are making me feel giddy with your relentless defence, that seems confusing.

How can you ask for a debate and then complain that the other side of the argument is too "relentless"? You have the largest number of posts in this thread. Is it merely that you don't enjoy an argument that is more contested than you expected when you started it?

You guys despise pirates. I have never defended pirates, only the possible reasons why some people resort to using copied games.

Several of us contend that those reasons are merely excuses to justify behaviour which the infringers know deep down to be wrong.

A lot of what I have said is valid, and based on concrete fact. The way some of you have gone out of your way to distort my words, and paint me in a bad light, is both saddening and indefencible.

I'm afraid that I feel that too much of your argument is waffle and unsubstantiated assertions, and now you're playing the victim. You appear to be focusing on the issue of cost. Can you point to any evidence that shows that cheaper titles are less likely to be copied? We're all game consumers here, so you have our natural sympathy when you argue that games should be cheaper, but some of us are wary of whether that will affect quality. You mentioned that you are not interested in the "frills" like cut-scenes, but I have to admit I rather like the polish of orchestral music, fancy user interfaces, and well presented manuals. Which view is most representative of the majority? (I honestly don't know.)

You don't like me opening a can of worms? If so... wouldn't it be better to stear clear of this thread?

You have posted reasons why you believe copyright infringement is understandable in a forum occupied by people who, like yourself, pay for the benefits of the industry: of course you are going to meet opposing arguments. Let me ask you: How do you feel about the people you know who obtain the same goods that you do without paying for them?

I've bought some fresh thinking and real solid facts to this debate, whereas many who appose my stance, have nothing but hostility and stiffled anger to offer.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...l-to-pity.html

As much as I love games, and many of the creative people, my firm belief ( based on many facts ) is that game pricing is artificially high, and that on the whole, the industry has become far more devious and negative over the past decade.

Your evidence? Game cost breakdowns vs sales figures? (some of us have at least a vague idea about this) Perhaps the old "comparison with films" chestnut? (which always seems to come up without anyone mentioning the revenue from merchandising, which rarely works for game-related IP)

Jim

[Leon Retro]

I've heard this all before, and you guys seem to like rhetoric just as much as the industry.

I don't think comparing the videogame industry to others is productive.

Apart from the facts I've stated. I've made personal observations, the main one being:

Everyone I know who isn't a devout gamer, thinks pricing is way too high. They tend to think only addicts would buy pay ?30-40. That's not to say serious gamers I know like the pricing, but they can justify it!

Now.. are they wealthy/rich? No... they are moderate income people.

I can only assume well-off people have no problem paying the high prices, and that would make sense.

I can't imagine anyone of moderate to low income being happy with game pricing, but obviously they choose to buy, or not!

The people that oppose my opinions, seem to have nothing but respect for the industry.

I find this to be unhealthy, and misguided. There are many great aspects to gaming, but sadly many negative ones too.

The main problem I have with the industry is the pricing. This is something I'm passionate about, and take a keen interest in.

I haven't been patronising. Anyone that thinks I have, either has low self esteem, or a problem with grasping my words.


You guys are guilty of dragging this issue on, not me. I made my feelings known a long way back, but I have to constantly defend my words, because people are picking at them, and taking sentences out of context, trying to make me look bad, or stupid.

I continue, because I know others are reading, and I have self respect.

You seem to think this is a game, and an opportunity to give someone a bad name. I want you to know, I realise this, and I can only hope others, with less courage to enter the arena, are on my side!

No abuse needed!

[Leon Retro]

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...l-to-pity.html




Jim

Grim Reaper? .. You're killing me!

[Mus]

My points have been clear and precise.

lol

[Grim Reaper]

Everyone I know who isn't a devout gamer, thinks pricing is way too high. They tend think only addicts would buy pay ?30-40. That's not to say serious gamers I know like the pricing, but they can justify it!

The majority of people do not understand what goes into making a game and how much it costs, so while their views on acceptable pricing are valid, their views on whether that represents an artificially high price are not.

However, this debate is not just about game prices - it's about piracy and reasons for it. Can you establish a connection between piracy taking place and the cost of goods being pirated?

I haven't been patronising. Anyone that thinks I have, either has low self esteem, or a problem with grasping my words.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...e-dilemma.html

Again, you're going to have to do better than that in this forum. You imply in several places that you see through "rhetoric" that we don't, and here again that an opposing view is "unhealthy and misguided". Perhaps you really do think that we're all stupid, and that's why you're surprised that we're challenging your rhetoric?

You guys are guilty of dragging this issue on, not me. I made my feelings known a long way back, but I have to constantly defend my words, because people are picking at them, and taking sentences out of context, trying to make me look bad, or stupid.

You supply the context and again you play the victim. There is a chance that we could actually learn something from each other if you argue the points. There are several "grey areas" in this debate, including whether or not games really are over-priced and whether a certain amount of piracy benefits the industry. However, so far your argument distills down to "I think games are too expensive", and while some may agree, it doesn't necessarily follow that piracy is a reasonable action even if we accept that claim. As for defending the industry, you're accusing them of deception without providing a shred of evidence in support.

You seem to think this is a game, and an opportunity to give someone a bad name. I want you to know, I realise this, and I can only hope others, with less courage to enter the arena, are on my side!

It's a debate, which is a contest of views. You could indeed consider it a game. My interest is that I feel that too many copyright infringers don't think about the industry that they're benefitting from and I want them to accept that they're doing something wrong. When they do that, they may decide to purchase games legitimately in the future, perhaps when they are more affluent, or indeed if game prices fall.

If you're just going to keep repeating your view without arguing it then we're all wasting our time, and we may as well agree to differ. Then you'll be free to go away deluding yourself that we're not smart enough to understand your view.

Jim

[Leon Retro]

If you're just going to keep repeating your view without arguing it then we're all wasting our time, and we may as well agree to differ. Then you'll be free to go away deluding yourself that we're not smart enough to understand your view.

Jim

Hey Jim

I haven't been arguing. You and others have serious issues with my opinions, and have quite clearly decided to make this a baiting game.

I made my opinions quite clear a while back. They are based on fact and personal observation.

You have some cheek telling me to debate, and present figures etc...

I haven't seen any facts or figures from you, and you seem so convinced your stance is correct. I never said I was 100% right, only that facts are facts, and the rest is opinion based on experience.


I find this tiresome, but also funny. You do realise that whilst I appear sad and obsessed, to any rational person, you must appear small minded, hostile, and patronising.


You are a wannabe pseudo intellectual, who doesn't have a clue how to conduct himself in a respectful manner.

I can't believe people are so bored, that they enter a thread, only to offer nothing but hollow meaningless opposistion to the debate.

Where have you been productive in constantly picking at my posts?

You obviously find my opinions unfounded, but to offer nothing but dissection and disrespect, is ridiculous, and sad!


A troll is someone who starts arguments for entertainment. Anyone who reads these pages properly, will see you and others have been trolling, however well you disguise it.

I got caught-up in it, because it's been a personal attack for others amusement. I am guilty of not walking away... but I'm not a mod, and I have no power, but the ability to respond!

Lock the thread... I can't believe this place sometimes!

Cheers!

[MartyG]

Clearly this is going no where now except locked city.