The worst prize in a decade...

[Baroque]

Second place in the current console market.
(Notice how both MS & Ninty have shut up about that of late?)

It's hilarious when you think about it, but when the companies & the fans fight it out over who's sold more and who is number two in the market (Ninty or MS), what they are really arguing about is who is "First loser" and who is "Second loser", buy a number of systems which Sony probably sells in two weeks.

The reality is both of them are losers, it's just costing MS a fortune for the privilege, while Nintendo are wondering why the trucks filled with money are only pulling up in front of their doorstep once a day now, instead of the five times a day in the N64 era.

Worst Prize in a Decade.
'Yes, we are number two, behind Sony, in the current console market. I'm now going to go somewhere and weep quietly, as that means we've still been outsold by the guy in first place nearly ten to one or some other such insane number.'

To think if the losers teamed up, their market share would be only Four times smaller than Playzilla's.

[srgbilco]

Yeah, I always thought that was stupid. Suppose it gives the PR offices somthing to do.

About those money trucks. I think the 5 times a week is more SNES era than N64.

[Smeghead]

About those money trucks. I think the 5 times a week is more SNES era than N64.

Think they were most profitable in the N64 era with Gameboy/color seriously raking it in too.

I don't care too much for sales, I'm more bothered about what I'm playing, unfortunately for me to keep playing the stuff I enjoy, it needs to sell well...bah, what a **** world we live in.

[Olympichero]

Well I dont think they see it from that perspective. They know (Well, certainly Microsoft) that the Xbox/Cube could not rival the PS2, so why try?

Sony are unresponsive to changes in pricing that Microsoft and Nintendo employ, essentially it is a battle for second place and any other console that enters the market will also be vying for second.

Remember, second is still one ahead of your closest competitor.

[Che Musashi]

Baroque right on, then we're met with claims how the battle will be in the next generation. What a load of crap.

So whomever does a better job surviving being Sony's b tch ends up the next possible contenter to unseat them in the next generation?

What kind of ridiculous marketing PR junk is that? Hang in there because our next product will be number 1! Meanwhile Sony sits back like the Don of the industry.

[MarkyB]

is it really a market though?

they seriously do not compete with Sony, its more like a monopoly these days

[Captain Falcon]

I don`t think anyone expected Nintendo and MS to overtake Sony. MS has done well though and its only Nintendo that are struggling to get their system taken seriously.

Sony will probably dominate the market for a very long time. MS will be able to compete in 2nd place and I expect Nintendo to quit hardware.

Lets hope the PS3 can please everyone, something the PS2 has not.

[nips]

I don`t think anyone expected Nintendo and MS to overtake Sony. MS has done well though and its only Nintendo that are struggling to get their system taken seriously.

Sony will probably dominate the market for a very long time. MS will be able to compete in 2nd place and I expect Nintendo to quit hardware.

This is a real big misconception. It's just plain wrong.

I agree, no one really expects the XB or GC to 'beat' the PS2, but the rest is pure tripe.

MS haven't really done well - at all. They've had to cut thier own throats for people to buy thier products in this country, making MAJOR losses. Now the console has been modded and the software aspect of that console may be effected. MS have penetrated the UK and the US well, but they have done TERRIBLY in Japan. They have not got ANYWHERE. They are the ones who are not being taken seriously.

On the other hand. Nintendo have released a relatively inexpensive product. They've maintained the same pricing plan. They have got a good penetration in every area. They have got a secure console with an almost non-existant mod-scene.

Nintendo are making good money. MS are not. While MS have a good amount of cash behind them, they have shareholders who will not be happy if they are throwing money at consoles. Nintendo are purely in the console business...

I believe that second and third place means NOTHING. It has no long term effects what-so-ever.

Sony has sold almost 4 times as many consoles as MS and Nintendo combined. It is a monopoly, and when you have a discrepancy as large as that, then it really has no long-term bearing.

That said, there was the thread about GC and XB teams joining up in american etc... While I felt it was very unlikely who knows!

[Baroque]

I don`t think anyone expected Nintendo and MS to overtake Sony. MS has done well though and its only Nintendo that are struggling to get their system taken seriously.

Sony will probably dominate the market for a very long time. MS will be able to compete in 2nd place and I expect Nintendo to quit hardware.

Misses the point of this thread, the difference between first and second place is measured in thousands of units, when you compare that to Playzilla's rapidly approaching 45M+ unit sell through, it's a dumb argument to have.

Both are still losers regrdless of if they are second or third, it?s not like a fight where the winner gets 45% of the market or something, together they have just over 10%.

Microsoft I'd say has done worse than everybody else, including Sega's Dreamcast in this generation. Dreamcast had its problems but even when they scrapped it and wrote off the hardware business, they still didn't lose as much money as Microsoft still are losing right now on XBox.

Indeed inside Microsoft, XBox attempt 1.0, is seen as a serious screw up, it's lost the company more money than any other product they are currently selling or have ever sold to date.

I?d expect Xbox 2 to be designed and manufactured very differently than the current hardware. If they had actually gone with the WebTV guy?s idea, of a MIPS using GigaPixel powered custom designed device, they probably would have broken even by now, but they went with the PC gamers idea of a console (x86 with an Nvidia GPU and a HD) and they pay for it with every unit they sell.

Anyone who declares XBox a victory, or a success, is mistaking Microsoft?s ability to grit their teeth and set a pitiful of money on fire for a successful business venture. It isn?t, and with Steve Ballmer breathing down their neck XBox 2 is probably going to do things very differently.

[Che Musashi]

Still their level of success will affect how their next machine does. Sony will have Japanese developers eager to make games for their next system. Will MS be so fortunate, with their limited success in the Japanese market.

I really think MS should break off the Xbox division so they can differentiate themselves from the "evil empire" and then have more autonomy thus allowing for greater success. I think Nintendo will probably always have some profit assuming every gameboy on the planet doesn't disappear.

[Olympichero]

I am sure Microsoft had more realistic aims and did not expect to make insane amounts of money or break any records. They have done what they wanted to by penetrating the market and setting up base for the next installment(s). Granted though it was harder then they first expected and they have lost alot of money, but then again the whole 'they can afford it' argument comes into play again.

Bottom line is I wouldnt say the project has been a success but it has achieved its goal.

[Baroque]

Bottom line is I wouldnt say the project has been a success but it has achieved its goal.

Yes and No. The goal was to shaft Sony and they haven't at least not yet and I'm not sure how they can next time either. Microsoft can't just win this, Sony have to lose it somehow. I'm looking at Sony and after a rough start with the PS2 it's annoying at how little the company is doing wrong.

If they have a better transition to the PS3 then they had with the PS2 I'd imagine this time they could lock the market up within six months.

When Rick Thompson met with Gates and Ballmer in 1999 he said that XBox couldn't be justified on a profit & loss basis. His summation was that he predicted the venture would lose the company $900M over eight years if they went ahead with it.

Thompson was pretty much ignored and he resigned from Microsoft in 2000 to go do other things. The fact of the matter is Thompson was wrong, he under-estimated how much XBox would lose as he assumed that it would have grabbed a larger market share than it actually has.

Microsoft are in so deep right now that they can't afford not to go ahead with XBox 2, but as I said Microsoft can't win this Sony have to lose it.

It's when the leader fumbles the ball that a competitor can grab the crown, if Sony screw up the PS3 intro then there's a shot. If they don't and it's a wrinkle free intro then nothing short of an outright developer revolt will stop them.

[Che Musashi]

Not to mention that whoever does best in Japan, usually does well in the rest of the world. Sony once again proves that point. Baroque you hit the nail on the head, with the PS3 launch. Sony needs to really mess up.

Then maybe Microsoft can steal some of their thunder What's interesting is that both Nintendo and Microsoft want to get the jump on Sony, yet Sony hasn't been clear when they plan to launch their new system.

For them its beneficial to drag out this turf war as long as possible and then spring the new shiny console on the world, while retaining its crown. But as long as PS2 is selling, why even hype PS3. The next round of the "Console Wars" will be interesting for like a week, then end up pretty much like the first.

[nips]

...Granted though it was harder then they first expected and they have lost alot of money, but then again the whole 'they can afford it' argument comes into play again.

MS may have more money in the bank, but they are not a console buisness. Shareholders will not allow them to throw billions away when they have much more profitable avenues.

Nintendo do only one thing... Make consoles and games. ALL they do is spend more money on their consoles, so really, Nintendo may be the ones who can 'afford it'!

[Lebowski]

its all down to the public and the fact is the public dont want betamax, they want vhs.

Nintndo microsoft are falling into the sega atari trap as there on console number two that hasent been a resounding success, and i imagene microsoft will be there to this time next launch. From joe publics perspective the game cube and xbox are the outsiders and will probably remain their how diffrent this might of been if sony and nintendo had gained an equal market share,

imagane if we hadent had the n64, insted we have the game cube in Q form around the launch of PS2 with mario 64, zelda, 1080 burnout 2, f-zero, soul calliber, goldeneye, and metroid and a wealth of others, were talking about a seriouse launch here, mabey then we might have a fighting chance, but thats a big maybe.

at present there is to much bad press around the two second place consoles, and with **** currentley sticking to these two like super glue, while sony just brushes it of i dont think we will have a very interesting next next next gen war on our hands.