The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)

[noobish hat]

I think what would have helped was making it so that you didn't have to play the bloody song of winds every time you wanted to change direction. They could easily have made it a song you play once, which give wind direction control to the c stick or something. It's not helped by the fact that the tunes in the game don't even sound good and could scarcely be called songs, not like in Ocarina where they all sound great each time you hear them.

[Sixty]

There's so many niggly things wrong with Wind Waker. It's such a shame, given the wonderful artstyle.

Combat is ruined for me by two things. First, all you need to do is wait for the A button parry prompt. Second, there's too much waiting around in some fights while the enemies get knocked to the ground and do their "where's my sword?" looking around thing. You can't just finish them off because they're invincible while they're doing it, and it's really annoying.

Sailing is just badly thought out, from needing the baton when you want to change direction to not having enough item slots to have the things you need ready all the time (sail, baton, cannon, grappling hook, boomerang - it means frequent trips to the menu to swap things around). The sense of wonder and discovery at finding a new island could have been amazing if only the vast majority of them weren't so small and uninteresting.

And this is probably a personal thing but as nice as the graphics obviously are the game just doesn't feel as epic as the other 3D Zeldas. Maybe they weren't going for that specifically with WW, but I really like the seriousness of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess and feel that's how Zelda should be. The cel-shaded style can't really manage that.

All of these things (except the last one) are a perfect example of why Nintendo should always be allowed to take as long as they need to with their games. Rushing WW for a Japanese Christmas 2002 release had tragic results when you think of what might have been. Then again it was never going to match Ocarina of Time's sheer impact and revolutionary-ness so maybe it doesn't matter that much after all.

[noobish hat]

i think the style could be suitable for epicness. If they just did a seriously enhanced remake of Link to the Past, it would have seriously been the best thing I can imagine. Or Link's Awakening! They were both epic.

[Sixty]

I think the biggest problem with the cel-shaded style is Link himself. As long as they've got him reacting to things with big, over the top, cartoony expressions it's difficult to take anything too seriously. This is why I find the other Zeldas much more immersive than WW, in fact. I can't empathise with WW Link like I can with the more silent Links. The character is supposed to be you, after all, and WW Link's reactions totally break the connection. Maybe if Nintendo stopped him reacting like that then an epic cel-shaded Zelda could work, but I bet they wouldn't be interested in doing that.

[Golgo]

I'm really going to have to give this game another chance, after failing to get into it after 7-8 hours first time round (to my shame, via VC). Especially as I've now got Majora's Mask lined up, too.

[egparadigm]

Just completed the game. Go me! I did enjoy the ending, it was very satisfying

->Open Spoiler<-

except the fact that there's no "new game plus" mode where you can save your progress after beating Ganon. I know it makes no difference, but I always prefer when you can save you game after beating the final boss!

Really liked the replacing of the sword and turning back of time.

I think I did effectively ruin this game for myself by playing it the way I did, unfortunately. The first dungeon I couldn't remember was the one in the dessert, which was quite fun to be fair. The following dungeon and the castle were really irritating and tedious, however. So it felt a bit like a game of two halves.

Really liked the surreal parts in the latter half, though – very cool and unusual!

[noobish hat]

Which surreal and unsual parts? I agree about the ending, but all Zelda games do that. In fact now that I think of it, most Nintendo games do that don't they? Having to just turn it off is a bit of a pisser. Have you played Majora's Mask?

[Sixty]

I'm in two minds about the not saving after last boss thing. In something like RE4, for example, it's great to immediately dive back in and see what new stuff you've got to play with. When it's something like Zelda, though, where the ending is a big moment that's likely been a long time coming, it's nice to switch it off, sit back and sigh in satisfaction of a job well done and marvel at the whole experience. Well that's how I see it, anyway.

And yeah: play Majora's Mask next. It's the perfect sequel for unexpected reasons.

[noobish hat]

Don't attempt Majora's Mask though without a guide, it would be impossible. You know all those pain in the ass side quests and unguessable steps in trading sequences in Ocarina? That's the entire game for Majora's Mask. There's only four dungeons.

[egparadigm]

Which surreal and unsual parts?

Basically all of the last two dungeons. With all the floating and "eye of truth" hidden entrances and platforms. Plus all the graphics are kind of psychedelic and dated in a good way.

I would like to try MM at some point. I've been playing on the Collector's Edition, so it's easily done; however, right now I really need a long break from all things Zelda! Mind you, noobish hat, your description doesn't do it any favours in my mind. I remember reading about the mechanic in N64 magazine and hearing from friends about it; now you mention it it sounds ghastly. I prefer to be told where to go and not to repeat parts.

[noobish hat]

To be fair, the time aspect is not as annoying as you'd imagine because you can slow time down. I never ran out of time and had to redo a dungeon, although I came close on one occasion. I had many false starts with the game because I always get opportunity paralysis at the beginning when you are given the whole town to explore and the complications of saving and time reseting acts as a bit of a barrier before you get into the game properly. Presumably it wasn't an issue when it was released because everyone was hungry for more Zelda, but when you have such a back catalogue, Majora's Mask can seem a bit daunting. If you're not a die hard Zelda fan and you don't intend on playing all of them anyway, I'd say avoid it and go for one of the others (not Twilight Princess).

EDIT: Having said all that, if you liked the weirder and darker parts of Ocarina, such as the well with the Marilyn Manson/Aphex Twin freaky ass enemies and depressing music, then there is nothing I could reccommend more than Majora's Mask because that is the atmosphere throughout. I'd heard it is considered the saddest and darkest of all the Zeldas, but it surprised even me.

[Tetsuo]

Mm. It's (Majora) very much a "fan's Zelda", if that makes sense, certainly nothing I'd recommend a newcomer getting into. It has some really interesting and clever twists on the Ocarina framework, and although it re-uses a lot of elements from that game, it still has an atmosphere of it's own. I'd still say it's the weakest of all the 3D Zelda's, though.

But that's not saying much, because even then, Majora's Mask is still a brilliant experience.

[noobish hat]

Anyone know why they changed it from Majura?