Why Shenmue 2 is not as good as Shenmue 1

[Jushin-Thunder-Liger]

I love Shenmue 2, however after playing both games over again i have the following comments for the makers of Shenmue 3, (please, god let it happen, on the GameCube too), because im sure thy are lurking here........

1) The objectives in Shenmue 2 are too clear, you dont have to think, just follow directions to place A and do action B.

2) The pace of the plot is too fast, you can't enjoy living Ryo's life at your own pace like in 1.

3) No sense of community in 2, i know its set away from Ryo's home town, but the atmosphere is not as good in HK.

4) Its boring to earn money in 2, i find working a Lucky Hit stall to be soooo boring compared to driving a forklift, most of the time in 2 i never had an money to do anything.

5) Its boring to earn money in 2, i find working a Lucky Hit stall to be soooo boring compared to driving a forklift, most of the time in 2 i never had an money to do anything. I mention this twice because of how much i hated the lucky hit stall.

6) More side plots, like finding someones cat that has run away or somthing, anything is better than carrying books around, for no money.

7) Id like to see Ryo join a gang undercover or somthing in 3, infiltrate a street gang in order to get more info about his Dad, plan some ambushes, robberies etc
This would make a great sub plot

Anyone else?

[jassi singh]

personally, i thought Shen mu 2 bettered all the faults with the first game


1) more fighting
2) Boss battles
3) More Moves
4) More quicktime events
5) NO Cats to feed
6) out run [i think ] + afterburner + SH

However both games did have annoyingly long "chores" such as the forklift in the 1st which was fun...for exactly a minute, and that stupid book carrying exercise, all though carrying the books werent as boring as it was half QTE.

Oh, and Ryo did infiltrate a gang in 2 remember

One thing they should change is the digital movement of ryo in S3, it feels quite clumsy now. Overall, its a top series so far...hope the next game is not the cut down story line... i am sure they can incorperate all the chapters into about another 2 games. And of course, they naturally should be released on the DC as well

[paul]

I spent the afternoon re-discovering 2 on the Xbox. I will agree that the money earning tasks are a pain.

I had a lucky hit stall this afternoon. I think it lasts about ten minutes per shift. Anyway, I finished my shift and the stall holder tells me I'm doing fine......only untill he get's his money back and discovers that I've lost $200. At which point he tell's me I'm no good. Then he asks me if I'd like to carry on!

Of course, I was supposed to select quit, but becuase my mind had become so numbed by the lucky hit experience, I inadvertantly selected continue.

I literally fell asleep a little while afterwards!

[Max M]

I agree with everything you said Jushin-Thunder-Liger.

True, the game was a lot bigger and probably had more variety, but the atmosphere and character of the first game was missing! Walking down dobuita with the sunset coming down and that amazing music in the background which changed through the day... it was beautiful, and you knew everyone in the village. In Shenmue 2 everything was more intimidating and cold.

Don't get me wrong, Shenmue 2's still one of my all-time favourite games and had some amazing moments, like getting to the top of that huge building, but apart from the final disk, it just really lacked the magic that made the original so special, at least until the last disk.

As I've said before, I'd love it if he visited his home in the next Shenmue just so we could see how everything's changed. I miss Fuku-San and Ine-San!

5) NO Cats to feed

You didn't have to feed the cat, you could run straight past if you wanted to.

[stroppa]

3) No sense of community in 2, i know its set away from Ryo's home town, but the atmosphere is not as good in HK.

I preferred it like this, maybe it's just me. I like to be a lone wolf in a strange town.

[paul]

I agree with everything you said Jushin-Thunder-Liger.

True, the game was a lot bigger and probably had more variety, but the atmosphere and character of the first game was missing! Walking down dobuita with the sunset coming down and that amazing music in the background which changed through the day... it was beautiful, and you knew everyone in the village. In Shenmue 2 everything was more intimidating and cold.

Don't get me wrong, Shenmue 2's still one of my all-time favourite games and had some amazing moments, like getting to the top of that huge building, but apart from the final disk, it just really lacked the magic that made the original so special, at least until the last disk.

As I've said before, I'd love it if he visited his home in the next Shenmue just so we could see how everything's changed. I miss Fuku-San and Ine-San!

5) NO Cats to feed

You didn't have to feed the cat, you could run straight past if you wanted to.

I'm probably mistaken here, but didn't AM2 take on the criticism levelled at 1 that people didn't want to immerse themselves in the atmosphere and wanted to see how the story developed. That's one of the reason why they allowed you skip time, if you had to wait till the evening for a certain event.

People didn't seem interested in wondering around and seeing what could be seen or done in 1.

That's a shame in my opinion as that was part of the FREE concept to my mind. I enjoyed 2, but it did seem very goal oriented, which took away from some of the magic of the first.

[Max M]

Sometimes designers shouldn't listen to crictics and should just go with what their heart tells them. I can't help but think the Sonic Adventure and JSR sequels were crippled for the same reason.

The first Shenmue's pace and atmosphere was the reason I loved it... nice and relaxing. In some ways, with all the talking, it was almost like an old point 'n' click adventure. That's another thing with the sequel, when you'd speak to people in the street they would all say exactly the same thing regardless of who you asked! Usually, "I'm going that way, follow me"

[paul]

Sometimes designers shouldn't listen to crictics and should just go with what their heart tells them. I can't help but think the Sonic Adventure and JSR sequels were crippled for the same reason.

The first Shenmue's pace and atmosphere was the reason I loved it... nice and relaxing. In some ways, with all the talking, it was almost like an old point 'n' click adventure. That's another thing with the sequel, when you'd speak to people in the street they would all say exactly the same thing regardless of who you asked! Usually, "I'm going that way, follow me"

I can't disagree with the first para at all. Although JSRF on XBox was a great game. I think it lost something for the loss of the Spray painting actions. It wasn't the same just skating past a location and pulling the trigger. I liked the sense of urgency that was evident in the first game.

I know what you mean about 1. The peripheral characters felt far too generic.

[Jushin-Thunder-Liger]

I agree with everything you said Jushin-Thunder-Liger.

True, the game was a lot bigger and probably had more variety, but the atmosphere and character of the first game was missing! Walking down dobuita with the sunset coming down and that amazing music in the background which changed through the day... it was beautiful, and you knew everyone in the village. In Shenmue 2 everything was more intimidating and cold.

Don't get me wrong, Shenmue 2's still one of my all-time favourite games and had some amazing moments, like getting to the top of that huge building, but apart from the final disk, it just really lacked the magic that made the original so special, at least until the last disk.

As I've said before, I'd love it if he visited his home in the next Shenmue just so we could see how everything's changed. I miss Fuku-San and Ine-San!

5) NO Cats to feed

You didn't have to feed the cat, you could run straight past if you wanted to.

I agree, nice post.
I Hated, HATED when say you had to be at the Hung Kwan diner or somthing at 8 o'clock, and you didn't have to walk there yourself in time. No matter where u were your alarm went off and you magically arrived. When that happened a little bit of me died.........
Taking away the FREE concept was bad.
I had forgot about following towns people around, man that was excruciating.
Dobuita became a place you knew and loved, HK was just a big, sprawling, grumpy place where nothing seemed to happened without Ryo. It was not 'organic' enough.
The HK bar scene is not a patch on Dobuita's either.

I couldn't believe when someone in Edge said 'Edge couldn't resist revisiting Shenmue 2, the temptation of operating a Lucky Hit stall was too much'
Bloody fools

[tokyochojin]

I enjoyed Shenmue I as it really is like the place it is based on, however Shenmue II was just so funny thanks to Ren's constant piss taking of Ryo!

[Concept]

1) The objectives in Shenmue 2 are too clear, you dont have to think, just follow directions to place A and do action B.

Shenmue also followed pretty much the same paper-trail format. But then again, getting from A to B was never really the point of the game. Was it?

2) The pace of the plot is too fast, you can't enjoy living Ryo's life at your own pace like in 1.

Hmm. Disc 1 and half of disc 2 are perhaps the slowest sections so far in the entire Shenmue saga. Until you hear about the Heavens not much happens, and you're (bar the book-airing task) pretty much free to explore HK when and how you want.

3) No sense of community in 2, i know its set away from Ryo's home town, but the atmosphere is not as good in HK.

Personally, I think this is the whole point of Shenmue II. The entire saga is about following one person's life on their travels and adventure. Shenmue developed a comforting "home-like" feel, due to the fact the surroundings were relatively small and easy to become familiar with. There was also a fixed home location populated by relatives who weren't hard to grow attached to, not to mention more people recognised and talked to Ryo overall. It was a brilliant feeling for a gameworld.

However saying this, in Shenmue II I think we are supposed to feel like we've been flung out of our comfort nest and into the big, bad, ever-so-fast world. If you play both games in the series back to back you'll know what I mean.

The atmosphere is changed to reflect Ryo's step forward on his journey. He's grown up and travelled to a foreign land. Just like him, we are supposed to feel perhaps a little smaller and more isolated. Although there's a great change in tone I don't think Shenmue II can really be thought of as separate from its brother, because the developement between both games was intertwined.

A while ago, when I finished Shenmue and then moved immediately on to the second, I felt a significant twinge of excitement and fear. Mostly because the scope/size of the world was opening up, and although I wanted to leave "home" and continued the journey, I knew I would miss it at the same time.

I think this generation of feeling says everything about the impact of Shenmue when the experience fully absorbs into you.

Also, was anyone else in awe the first time they explored Wan Chai at night? I remember properly exploring Green Market Qr. and just getting a buzz from the atmosphere.

4) Its boring to earn money in 2, i find working a Lucky Hit stall to be soooo boring compared to driving a forklift, most of the time in 2 i never had an money to do anything.

If you had that much trouble, then why didn't you exploit the gambling flaw? It's possible to bet anywhere from $100-500 at a stall in Green Market Qr. Save, and if you fail, just reload until you win.

6) More side plots, like finding someones cat that has run away or somthing, anything is better than carrying books around, for no money.

Yes, but...

There's loads of hidden side-plots in Shenmue II. They just aren't as obvious. For example, you can collect various medals, compete in duck races, buy Fangmei a birthday present, learn secret moves from Devlin and a few others etc. Also, there's a number of side cut-scenes with Fangmei and a few more in the tea-cup section.

For me, the most beautifully moving scene in the entire saga thus far is when you're having an ordinary conversation with Fangmei, and all of a sudden she blurts out "I love you". That really shocked me and caught me by surprise. Although she's obviously too young for Ryo, the fact she cares deeply about him meant that I cared deeply for her too. For example, if you hang about ManMo temple when she's doing her chores you can talk to her about a huge number of things in-game. The way characterisation is built up in Shenmue II is both subtle and brilliant in my opinion.

7) Id like to see Ryo join a gang undercover or somthing in 3, infiltrate a street gang in order to get more info about his Dad, plan some ambushes, robberies etc.

That's what he does in disc 3, doesn't he? Sure he's not a part of the Heavens per se, but Ren does drag Ryo into the darker side of HK life, and the sarcastic/ironic/amusing/comic interplay between the two is pure class.

The way both of them spark off each other had a smile on my face throughout that section.

[Lyris]

I think both were excellent, but Shenmue 2 had a slow start. Later on it got as good as the first one.

[Jushin-Thunder-Liger]

If you had that much trouble, then why didn't you exploit the gambling flaw? It's possible to bet anywhere from $100-500 at a stall in Green Market Qr. Save, and if you fail, just reload until you win

Yes, but you shouldn't need to cheat, one time i was down to $10 and spent ages trying to get it up to 50 to try and bet, i just gave up after a while as i found Lucky Hit stalls to be just too boring to waste my time with

[Madbury]

I'm just about to start 2 on the DC. I think the problem with the XBox version is that you can't carry your save through from 1.

On the DC you can retain your collection and the like to sell off at a pawn shop if the going gets really tough. I'm sure that eases the financial burden a bit.

[C']

I'm just about to start 2 on the DC. I think the problem with the XBox version is that you can't carry your save through from 1.

On the DC you can retain your collection and the like to sell off at a pawn shop if the going gets really tough. I'm sure that eases the financial burden a bit.

On X-Box, you actually start with every collection complete I think, so you can still sell them off to ease the finanacial strain.