Majority of 360 owners narrow-minded?

[Brats]

Well, the 360 has only reached the 10 million mark a few months ahead of what it took Xbox1 to, so it's not really that remarkable a figure, is it? Considering MS actively pursued the "hardcore" with the first Xbox. 360 has only sold a little bit quicker. What does that tell you?

Good point. The difference being that the 360's current rate of sale is quite a bit higher than the XBox 1, which sold a lot very quickly and then nose dived. The 360 sold a lot less at the start but has maintained a steady (but not spectacular) rate. The XBox also benefitted from significant price drops to boost sales (which in turn caused Microsoft to lose those billions of dollars).

If all things remain equal, the 360 should pull away from the XBox sales fairly significantly over time and should lose them less money. Then there is also the argument that the 360 was released very early, it has more formidable Nintendo to contend with and handheld gaming has eaten into some of the traditional home console's market.

[anephric]

If you believe various guesstimates, MS isn't losing money on each 360 sold either, unlike the Xbox1 for most of its lifetime.


Well, until yesterday anyway. It does seem slightly worrying that industry pundits are saying the 360's hit its plateau sales-wise until it gets Moore's "sweet spot" pricing, which may be delayed following Black Thursday. Certainly, sales have dropped away this year, and the clustering of 70% of the market in the US is slightly scary too, if we're talking embracing games that aren't sports titles or space marine FPSes.

[Kron]

I can't help thinking that Kron has an axe to grind (Gears of Bore and all that).

And why is it I have an axe to grind? Is it because almost 2 years in I'm dissapointed by the lack of genuinely varied and interesting exclusives?

I never said that the system would appeal to people who have an interest in shmups. However it does appeal to people who have an interest in variety of gameplay (yourself being one of the few exceptions it would seem).

No you said it had the genre "covered", So what is the point in these games if they aren't going to bring either the established or new fans to the console? If it does appeal to people who have an interest in variety then why aren't people buying the system in greater numbers than the predicessor and why do these topics about the narrow selection constantly pop up?

There might be some genres which are only covered by a single game (not the majority - that's simply incorrect), but the single example is a usually a quality example and that is more important than quantity. The only area I've listed where the quality is dodgy are flight sims. Hopefully Ace Combat 6 will fill this gap.

I seriously can't believe after the previous consoles we've been privvy to that 1 game per genre can be considered a good thing, Are people really this easily pleased? And consequently doesn't this send an incredibly bad message about what is actually on the system?

Yes there are a large number of FPS and racers (especially the latter recently after a lean period of several months), but a lot of consoles have popular genres that appear more than others. The SNES was covered in 2D platformers and 2D fighters (being the two most popular genres of the day) but it still had space for variety (despite comments from Sega-fanboys at the time that it was lacking - how times change!).

The big difference being the consoles of the past always had a market in every territory, Are consumers and developers in asia not bothering with the system because of politics or internal racism? or is it because the software on the system isn't representative of modern media trends or brands which they are familliar with?

If you think I'm wrong, then why don't you list examples of genres that you think are not covered by quality examples. Come on, why don't you put some proper reasoning behind your argument for a change?

Lists are incredibly boring and tbh I think you'd struggle to reason 2 games to the vast majority of genres you've listed earlier but I'll try and add something.

For a start my pet peeve which is live arcade which is such a cynically executed idea and does nothing to support the few developers who actually actively invest in the arcade market. There is no representation of any concept or title produced in the last 12 years.

Its such a shame the concept is nothing more than a cash cow for PC shareware developers and Capcom, Konami and Midway to port the games we've seen numerous times on the various compilation packs already (Castlevania SOTN being the exception to the rule).

In terms of new "exclusive" titles which wouldn't be free shareware on the PC wheres the vert and hori shmups from the likes of Cave, Treasure, G.rev, Triangle Service, Milestone and Moss? Where's all the recent light gun games like Virtua Cop 3, House of the Dead 4, 2spicy etc?

How come the original Xbox had support from the likes of Arc System and SNK with beat em ups but there are none on the 360? Where's the recent Battle Fantasia and Melty Blood a+b and Fist of North Star?

I can call into question the genres you've chosen as I haven't a clue what you are representing "arcade flight" with as it seems like one of those things people would add to pad out a list, It sure as hell isn't prop cycle or Sega's Airline Pilots or even Joint Strike Fighter. Nothing in the last 15+ years anyway.

If anything the 360 has even less genre representation than the original Xbox.

I'm guessing they'll be a cynical reply along the lines of these are niche genres etc but these are niche genres every other manufacturer has managed to cater for and build a catalogue and userbase from. If games consoles are simply 3 year efforts with one or possibly two games in a shallow pool of genres then were going backwards.

And what I've typed above just covers a part of the arcade side and not even the other typical genres you'd expect on a home console.

Its not a problem that the majority of users are narrow minded its a problem that Microsoft and the likes of Peter (I expect our users to be male and formally PC gamers) Moore are.

[John Beaulieu]

Those Microsoft bastards, how dare they not actively court Japanese developers to bring their niche games to the 360, how dare they not invest millions into a market that is not supporting them in any way, how dare they not bring us upgraded classic arcade titles for reasonable prices, how dare they not bring us traditional japanese role play games, release niche japanese created titles such as Senko no Ronde in the West, or push for online multiplayer in games such as that disgusting Virtua Fighter 5

those Microsoft bastards....

[Brats]

And why is it I have an axe to grind? Is it because almost 2 years in I'm dissapointed by the lack of genuinely varied and interesting exclusives?

Because it comes across that you're not giving the system a chance. You quite happily defend other console's libraries lack of variety due to lack of time to establish a decent catalogue, but not the 360.

No you said it had the genre "covered", So what is the point in these games if they aren't going to bring either the established or new fans to the console?

Obviously most fans aren't fans of particular genre, they fans of good games. We both agree you attract people with variety, ergo the established fans are catered for.

If it does appeal to people who have an interest in variety then why aren't people buying the system in greater numbers than the predicessor and why do these topics about the narrow selection constantly pop up?

A number of reasons, but I don't believe lack of variety is it. People bringing up these topics doesn't make it true. There are more people in this thread disagreeing with the topic than agreeing with it.

I seriously can't believe after the previous consoles we've been privvy to that 1 game per genre can be considered a good thing, Are people really this easily pleased? And consequently doesn't this send an incredibly bad message about what is actually on the system?

Take it in context though, it's an 18 month old system. There were clear gaps in the PS2's catalogue at 18 months. Again you are being extremely harsh on this particular system.

The big difference being the consoles of the past always had a market in every territory,

Not true, not that it makes any difference at all.

Are consumers and developers in asia not bothering with the system because of politics or internal racism? or is it because the software on the system isn't representative of modern media trends or brands which they are familliar with?

Clearly the 360 lacks games in the genres that appeal in Asia, I will not disagree with you there and that i th reason for its failure. However, the interest from Japan is a lot more healthy in terms of the level of resources alloted to it than before. top Japanese developers are allowing some of their top teams to write (admittedly Western styled) original and exclusive games for the system. his is a far cry for the kind of support th other console received.

Lists are incredibly boring and tbh I think you'd struggle to reason 2 games to the vast majority of genres you've listed earlier but I'll try and add something.

I could do, but don't have time at the moment. Boring or not, at least the support an argument.

For a start my pet peeve which is live arcade which is such a cynically executed idea and does nothing to support the few developers who actually actively invest in the arcade market. There is no representation of any concept or title produced in the last 12 years.

I won't deny that there is gap there, but you're being extremely harsh to call it cynical.

Its such a shame the concept is nothing more than a cash cow for PC shareware developers and Capcom, Konami and Midway to port the games we've seen numerous times on the various compilation packs already (Castlevania SOTN being the exception to the rule).

What about Lumines? And that's being very unfair. Not all developers are cowboys like Popcap. Take Pom-Pom, a small developer with original software. Their new game has been granted a patent, so original is the concept (apparently).

In terms of new "exclusive" titles which wouldn't be free shareware on the PC wheres the vert and hori shmups from the likes of Cave, Treasure, G.rev, Triangle Service, Milestone and Moss? Where's all the recent light gun games like Virtua Cop 3, House of the Dead 4, 2spicy etc?

They're missing, bu I believe the whole devloment community missed the appeal of Live Arcade. They are catching up and I epect these gaps to be filled. You're expecting Rome to be built in a day.

How come the original Xbox had support from the likes of Arc System and SNK with beat em ups but there are none on the 360? Where's the recent Battle Fantasia and Melty Blood a+b and Fist of North Star?

SNK are on board and coming. Some are missing, but are replaced with others.

I can call into question the genres you've chosen as I haven't a clue what you are representing "arcade flight" with as it seems like one of those things people would add to pad out a list, It sure as hell isn't prop cycle or Sega's Airline Pilots or even Joint Strike Fighter. Nothing in the last 15+ years anyway.

Blazing Angels actually. I admit not a great game, but Ace Combat is coming.

If anything the 360 has even less genre representation than the original Xbox.

These comments are just meaningless without some kind of proff. Throw us a bone here.

I'm guessing they'll be a cynical reply along the lines of these are niche genres etc but these are niche genres every other manufacturer has managed to cater for and build a catalogue and userbase from. If games consoles are simply 3 year efforts with one or possibly two games in a shallow pool of genres then were going backwards.

Then you guess wrong. I'm not saying things are perfect, but I am sayin a lot of genres are covered by quality releases and a lot more are comin. Most other people seem to agree with me.

Its not a problem that the majority of users are narrow minded its a problem that Microsoft and the likes of Peter (I expect our users to be male and formally PC gamers) Moore are.

Explain to me how Nintendo and Sony did things differently.

[capcom_suicide]

And why is it I have an axe to grind? .

Reading your post, it sounds like you do have an axe to grind! Woah dude!

The 360 has a solid core of "Bread and butter" games that make devs money: FPS, Driving and Sport.

But you seem to be dismissing a huge chunk of original titles in a machine that's only 18months old! So yes, you do come across as bitter.

I mean the 360 even has Ikuraga confirmed for Live FFS!

I'm not after an argument, but it's not often folk on here come across so biased for/against a platform, and I can't just let that go.

Most of us own at least 2 of the 3 next gen machines, and it's clear to everyone that the 360 has a fab lineup of both original & interesting games. The lack of a light gun game does not constitute enough of a failure for the level of dis-satisfaction shown.

The fact the thing sounds like a 747 on take off and goes wrong all the time are far better things to focus on if you feel like an anti xbox rant.

[Dogg Thang]

Brats, that time you spent typing a reasoned response - you'll never get it back.

[Ajay1986]

Those Microsoft bastards, how dare they not actively court Japanese developers to bring their niche games to the 360, how dare they not invest millions into a market that is not supporting them in any way, how dare they not bring us upgraded classic arcade titles for reasonable prices, how dare they not bring us traditional japanese role play games, release niche japanese created titles such as Senko no Ronde in the West, or push for online multiplayer in games such as that disgusting Virtua Fighter 5

those Microsoft bastards....

Quoted for truth.

Kron i really love the way you post in anything thread that has the remote possibility of bashing MS and the 360.

I dont see where you are coming from at all, first of all i dont see where you are getting this idea that the Xbox was more varied and better supported by devs is Japan. As far as i can see the 360 has a HUGE list of varied games coming out esspecially from Japan, in fact the amount of games announced is much more impressive then any of the other Next Gen consoles so far.

Its quite clear from whenever you post Kron that you have some silly vendetta against MS for some reason and nothing anyone points out to you would change your mind.

[Yoshimax]

And why is it I have an axe to grind?

because (never start a sentence with "because" btw ) you bought a different console and you regret it now ?

[Kron]

I really love the way people always use the "you only post to bash etc" Considering my last lot of proliffic posts was well over 8 months ago then not much has changed here.

No matter how many times someone says they are dissapointed with the lineup its always some kind of vendetta or rush of masses to say its wonderful or attempt to cover up the glaring inadiquacy with "there's lots coming".

Where are the games like these on the 360?

Breakdown
Crazy Taxi 3
Dino Crisis 3
Dinosaur Hunting
Double Steal
Double Steal 2
Dronez
Exa Skeleton
Exchaser
Flight Academy
Guilty Gear Isuka
Guilty Gear XX Reload
Gunvalkyrie
Jet Set Radio Future
House of the Dead 3
Innocent Tears
KOF 2002
KOF 2003
KOF Neowave
Maximum Chase
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4
Metal Slug 5
N.U.D.E
Otogi
Otogi 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Phantom Dust
Plus Plumb 2
Psyvariar 2
Rent a Hero #1
Shikigami no Shiro
Shikigami no Shiro Evo
Shikigami no Shiro 2
Spikeout
Tekki
Thousand Land
Toe Jam & Earl 3
Touge R
Wild Rings
Yukikaze

[John Beaulieu]

Narrowed it down to decent games ...

Guilty Gear Isuka
Guilty Gear XX Reload
Gunvalkyrie
Jet Set Radio Future
House of the Dead 3
KOF 2002
KOF 2003
KOF Neowave
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4
Metal Slug 5
Otogi
Otogi 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Phantom Dust
Psyvariar 2
Shikigami no Shiro
Shikigami no Shiro Evo
Shikigami no Shiro 2
Spikeout
Tekki

and to counter it with another list...

Lost Planet
Dead Rising
Bulletwitch
Chromehounds
Armoured Core 4
Senko no Ronde
Blue Dragon
Enchanted Arms
Dead or Alive 4
Virtua Tennis 3
Over-g Fighters
Ridge Racer 6
Shotuko Battle X
Vampire Rain
Project Sylpheed
Tenchu Senran
Eternal Sonata
Culdcept Saga
Idolmaster
Oneechanbara vorteX
A Ressha de Gyouku HX / A-Train HX
Chikyuu Boueigun 3 / Earth Defense Forces 3
Winning Eleven X
Phantasy Star Universe
Zegapain NOT
Super Robot Taisen XO
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2
Ninety Nine Nights
Rumble Roses XX
Aquazone
Kengo Zero
Sengoku Musou 2
Zegapain XOR
Bomberman: Act Zero
Spectral Force 3: Innocent Rage
Love Football: Aoki Senshi Tachi no Kiseki
Final Fantasy XI: Treasures of Aht Urhgan
Zoids Infinity EX Neo
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Empires
Tengai Makyou: Ziria

getting bored now so won't bother posting the games due for release which are Japanese developed

[John Beaulieu]

Kron earlier today "Lists are incredibly boring"

QFT

[John Beaulieu]

Just realised that 'my' list beats 'your' list by 1 ... so I guess the 360 wins

[Yoshimax]

May I ?

[Kron]

Considering my list was titles of type you don't see on the 360 and you've got stuff like Winning Eleven, DOA, Phantasy Star etc you've clearly completely missed the point, Especially the narrowing down to what was good in your opinion.

I could have easily doubled that list as well so if you'd like to get some perspective first be my guest.

But I got the impression from my first reply that the situation was lost upon some of you so its not a surprise.