What's my motivation?

[El Leone]

I never faced the problems you had with your examples (Half Life 2/Halo 3) but I had been following these game for quite awhile, and when I was playing I was totally absorbed into every detail. Which may explain why

[Wools]

It was simpler in the old days of gaming - save the Princess! Destroy all invaders! Shoot the other cowboy!

Are these two games the exception, do you think? Does storytelling in games need a kick in the ass? Is it just a recent things with devs reaching beyond their abilities? For example, I can't remember having a problem knowing what I'm doing in an RE game.

As the Tech behind games has increased, the possibilities of gameplay have progressed beyond the simple narrative of Mario Bros.

It's to be expected really and with a game as beautifully complex as you want it to be, in the shape of Half Life 2, the player can enjoy both ends. There is the simple story, you know you have to protect Alyx, Barney and have to kill the Combine. However if you want to dig deeper then you can follow the story which is complex but I found it to be very literal and simple to understand.

In essence I adore a game narrative such as Resident Evil 2. You dont have to follow it but is simple enough to understand. If you chip away though it really has been thought up well and serves it purpose as pulp fiction.

I agree with your criticism of Halo 3 though. I love the games but really have no idea what I accomplished, as a player, during the trilogy!

[Dogg Thang]

With a film it is all presented for you complete. There is no obvious need for interaction and you don't HAVE to involve yourself in the story other than through listening and watching.

I would argue that this is incorrect. In fact, I would say if you are not involved in a film, the film has failed. The best films make us feel emotion and there are very few films that don't aim for this. If there are any, I can't imagine most people would have heard of them as they would have invariably failed to capture an audience.

This is a lot more difficult than it seems and screenwriters spend a lifetime learning that craft. The first rule, however, is simple - make us empathise with the protagonist. He can be completely different to us, but we have to be drawn in to his life and we have to care.

When a script editor gets a screenplay, one of his main jobs is to make sure that the character's motivations are clear in every scene and that the pace of that motivation will match where the audience is at. Good film is not a passive experience.

[eastyy]

well have to say i really did not like metal gear solid 2 .....it was trying to be to much of a film and i really did not like the story

when you actually got to play it then it was really good but when you have to sit through excessive cut scenes that just grinds my gears

if you have a really good story though that can help the game alot such as planescape torment

[SmokeMeAKipper]

Really interesting thread - all very valid opinions too.

In terms of comparison to films, gaming really is a young industry and will undoubtedly and inevitably grow and evolve. Admittedly, this is an argument that is regularly trotted out to combat criticisms that we aren't on the same level as cinema/literature, but for me it's a very valid one.

Dogg Thang - I agree with your sentiment that a film needs to emotionally involve you to succeed. Clearly, this level of involvement needs to work on different levels depending on the type of film being watched (think of American Pie vs Schindler's List... for example). This works with games too. The emotional involvement you feel for Alyx Vance, for example, is vastly different to the emotional involvement you feel for your fellow gang members in Saints Row (again, for example).

Story is vital to gaming - but it is not the be-all and end-all. I can't recall a huge sprawling narrative to Rez but it doesn't stop it being a brilliant game. Gaming is in the enviable position of being able to offer experiences that are not necessarily story-dependent. Films or books rely on a narrative more than gaming does (in my estimation).

If anything, this just again demonstrates to me the variety and versatility that gaming has to offer. It's growing and will improve. Don't throw down your joypad/keyboard and mouse [delete where applicable] just yet

[Dogg Thang]

I can't recall a huge sprawling narrative to Rez but it doesn't stop it being a brilliant game.

Yep, this was part of my point with the simpler games. The games that really are all gameplay. Story isn't a problem.

What's happening now though is that game devs have much more technical ammo and can create these wonderful worlds and so are attempting the 'sprawling narrative' and sometimes falling flat on their face.

And, as Eastyy points out, that doesn't mean that games have to try to be films. I would share his view on MGS2 though I thought the stroytelling was much improved in MGS3. I do find a slight disconnection between the storytelling and the gameplay in the MGS games however and one thing I loved about Half-Life and still think is great in HL2 is that everything happens completely withing game.

[eastyy]

well i hate it when the story and the cut scenes become the primary focus of developers for games

cannot remember the last time it happened but i do know several times before....waiting on ages of unskippable cutscenes and all i wanted to do is save my game

mgs 3 i have not played yet......did hear it had two intro sequences

[Dogg Thang]

The amount of cut sequences in MGS3 is beyond ridiculous, especially at the start.

[Riskbreaker]

Children of Men isn't actually a bad example of this. In CoM, we had no clue why the world was the way it was. We didn't know why people weren't having babies. We didn't know how one girl managed it. We didn't get any birth issues resolution. This threw a few people but not many. This was setting.

The story was Clive Owen's journey. His motivations were clear every step of the way. This brought most viewers into the story. Had we not been able to follow what he was doing, the film would have been a shambles.

Whilst I agree with some of your points about finding your motivation. I find it hard to understand how you can let CoM get away with almost exactly the same things that you take HL2 to task for.

When I started the HL2 for the first time just a couple of weeks ago, it was immediately apparent that Valve intended for me to be Gordan Freeman. HL2 is, in the same vein as CoM about Gordan's journey. Just like Gordan I found myself on a Train with no clue as to why the hell you I be there over anywhere else, other than the fact that a sinister looking man had planted me there. But within the first couple of minutes of stepping off that train I knew there wasn't something right with the world and where I was, I didn't want to be. Without turning this into a spoiler thread, even as I started off on my fairly linear journey my motivations were quite clear until I finished Ep2 over the weekend.

Turn it on it's head. If CoM was a game instead, I imagine it would pan out in a fairly similar way to HL2. You could even take a guess at how it start, as a hapless city worker starting out what for him (not "you") would be a fairly typical day (considering the kind of events you could assume took place over the preceding years). Now a dev could take the route of "Lets explain everything to the gamer in a nice big cutscene, lets tell him his goals and motivation". Maybe even have the game skip straight to the combat bits and just leave all preceding narrative to cutscenes. But I'd like to imagine that someone would suggest letting the player see the world for himself; pick up a paper and read recent headlines, watch a TV in a shop window (cliched I know but you get the idea), get a feel for a rundown city that exists as a shadow of it's former self. I'd like to think that for that kind of story, I wouldn't have someone explain everything for me, but rather as Valve have done, focus my attention to the relevant areas.

I realise the story telling in HL2 does have its flaws, but I think it achieves what it sets out to do quite competently. That is, put you in Freemans shoes, the shoes of a guy who gets snatched out of a long sleep with little idea of where he is and why the world is the way it is.

[fahrenheit]

Its nice when it all comes together, but knowing where I am and why I'm doing it is always going to play second fiddle to just having fun with the actual mechanics of play.

It really won't matter how good the story is and your involvement in it if the fundemental gameplay isn't engaging.

[eastyy]

half life i liked ....but it kindoff bugged me that gordon freeman does not talk at all i mean if i was in his shoes (which literally is what happens) i would have alot to say

[ItsThere]

half life i liked ....but it kindoff bugged me that gordon freeman does not talk at all i mean if i was in his shoes (which literally is what happens) i would have alot to say

Now that I do agree with, the same applies to Link. How many times can he go ah - ugh and just get away with it...

[Concrete donkey]

Motivation is one of the most important aspects on gaming for me. Without it I find it difficult to stick with it, and sometimes when the primary motivation shifts or change I find my willingness to play wanes sometimes. This has happened in games like Okami and Twilight Princess and it can take a while before I get back into it.

It can be as simple as save the princess, exploration or just pure survival, but I need a reason to care beyond achieving the objectives. This is why I don?t play world war two games as I find there?s no heart to the story.

I would love a war game where at the beginning your forces retake a French village or something which you use as a basis of operations for your next few missions till the Germans retake it. Now emotionally invested in the village and its people it becomes a personal objective to retake it. Instead we have games where it?s all about the objective. Get here, take out them, secure position. Now maybe that?s what real war is like but try finding a good war movie or book without some personal motivation in its characters. Some of my favourite moments in gaming history was when previous safe areas come under threat (Perfect Dark on the N64 for example)

Shadow of the Colossus is one of the best examples of motivation for me. I was doing something against my better nature and judgement, all to save a girl. That?s how it was that character and that?s how it felt to me, saving someone the game somehow made me emotionally attached to with no character interaction.

It maybe the case that the game gives you your motivation, like Mario or Zelda, or it could be a motivation you make or find on your own like in Oblivion but for the most part I need a reason to fight, to care, to play.

[egparadigm]

The story telling in Halo 3 is staggeringly bad. Coming from such a high base with Halo CE, I can't believe how poorly it's delivered.

EDGE called it "space opera," but I fail to understand how that can be when you've got no idea what you're doing.

[dogen]

half life i liked ....but it kindoff bugged me that gordon freeman does not talk at all i mean if i was in his shoes (which literally is what happens) i would have alot to say

I prefer mutes. I find them generally easier to relate to and more likeable. I wish Rockstar North had kept the GTA playable characters as mutes. Playing through Vice City and having to listen to Tommy Vercetti's dialog was unbareable.

But yeah, mutes. I approve.