Games TM No. 63

[John Beaulieu]

But i don't like reviews with too much opinion. And yes reviews can have too much opinion. Of course it is generally all opinion, but there are limits. There has to be. I mean, terrorists obviously have their opinions but that doesn?t make it right does it. There has to be limits otherwise there would be chaos.

A review without opinion might as well be a press release ... and comparing reviewers to terrorists is sheer madness.

[gossi the dog]

I can't believe that so many of you are aghast that a review only gave Super Mario Galaxy a 9. Really? I mean I'm sure it's a great game, but most of you haven't even played it. And a 9 is an excellent score. If it had got a 6 or 7 maybe you'd be right to up your arms but this is somewhat pathetic.

[Dogg Thang]

A 9 is a pretty terrific score. A game can be utterly torn to shreds and still end up with a 3 rather than a 1 or 0. It can be **** but not absolutely utterly offensively make you throw up your lunch **** and the text will still read all negative.

Can't see why it would be different in the high marks.

[PeteJ]

I can't believe that so many of you are aghast that a review only gave Super Mario Galaxy a 9. Really? I mean I'm sure it's a great game, but most of you haven't even played it. And a 9 is an excellent score. If it had got a 6 or 7 maybe you'd be right to up your arms but this is somewhat pathetic.

Sure, the point being raised is that the review read like a 10! It is a very minor issue of course, and as Adam says, it hardly did a bad job in raising my levels of interest

[Adam Stone]

A review without opinion might as well be a press release ... and comparing reviewers to terrorists is sheer madness.

That's not what i said. I said "too much opinion". A review should have opinion. Of course it should. You misunderstood me before and here you are again. Maybe i'm not being clear enough, so i apologize.

Either way, it's simple really. Everything is opinion after all. Good and Bad. Right and wrong. Its all a perception. All an opinion.... But that's why there has to be limits surely? That's all i was saying.

Anyhoo, concerning the Mario review. 9 is a brilliant score. It is what i expected/hoped to see. I just feel, considering how amazingly positive the review is, it just reads like a 10. But still, these score discussions are the very reason why i dislike them so much

[John Beaulieu]

the question then is when does opinion become too much?

personally I want to read what the person reviewing the game really thought about it, without holding back anything.

[Adam Stone]

That really is the question isn't it :-)

I, like you, feel nothing should be held back... But things should be written objectively. Opinion should never be disguised as fact. Maybe that's the real issue.

Anyhow, didn't mean to go OT here...

[John Beaulieu]

Isn't someone's opinion fact though? For example, if I don't like a particular game and give my reasons why within a review then am I or am I not stating facts? Just because my 'facts' might not necessarily be yours doesn't mean that they are wrong...

[gossi the dog]

See I disagree. I think reviewers should be completely subjective. Then sites such as metacritic would have a use as they'd compile numerous different personal opinions on a game giving a pretty good measure of an average score. As it is you have too many reviewers trying to be objective, but failing as some subjectivity will always get in the way. You also currently have the politics of keeping publishers and your overly enthusiastic readers happy, which means that reviewers are often forced to give games better reviews than they deserve.

[John Beaulieu]

objectivity and subjectivity both have their place within a review - it's like I want to read about how a game plays, and I want to read how it feels (not necessarily the same thing).

[gizmo1990]

So they didn't have a bad word to say about Galaxy and ended up giving it a 9?

Same old Games then...

[Adam Stone]

objectivity and subjectivity both have their place within a review - it's like I want to read about how a game plays, and I want to read how it feels (not necessarily the same thing).

Absolutely agree. But, John, to say all opinion is fact is very questionable.

You also currently have the politics of keeping publishers and your overly enthusiastic readers happy, which means that reviewers are often forced to give games better reviews than they deserve.

I just wanted to add that I've never been one to review a game purely on what i think will be best received, or what i think my readers want to hear or what will keep everyone happy... nor do i think any reviewer should ever do this.

I know my example of terrorism was a little extreme earlier, but it shouldn’t be dismissed as inappropriate. It was just an abstract way of looking at the complications of opinions and how, whatever the situation, there has to be a boundary set.

Reviewer's opinions are generally regarded of importance because they are usually from reliable sources. By that I mean they are usually from well experienced individuals who we trust know their stuff. We trust they are not biased and express a fair and open mind. Otherwise, why have reviews at all? Why not just have first play threads?

I personally think the idea of a first play thread is a brilliant one. Absolutely spot on when trying to gather various and varied opinions on a game. If reviews are only another persons opinion, through and through without being objective, why have them at all when this other amazing alterative exists? I like to think reviews offer that objective alternative...

It is a very difficult subject, one i must say i find fascinating

[John Beaulieu]

I know my example of terrorism was a little extreme earlier, but it shouldn?t be dismissed as inappropriate. It was just an abstract way of looking at the complications of opinions and how, whatever the situation, there has to be a boundary set.

Going all political on this one but what the hey ... a terrorist is seen as such from one perspective, from the other they are seen as freedom fighters/martyrs etc etc. I am sure you can name quite a few terrorist organisations in which the majority of people here will agree are bad guys, but then we can also point at groups through history that we view as 'good guys' for example the french resistence during WW2 - freedom fighters to us, and yet I am sure the Nazis at the time would have viewed them as terrorists. Both terms would have been seen as fact from their respective perspectives...

Just because a reviewer may be subjective about a game doesn't mean that they are going into a review biased one way or another - what it means is that they made their mind up during the review process, and they are passing that on to the reader

[Adam Stone]

Would they have been seen as fact though? Facts do not leave room for possibility. I'm sure you can agree there is much room for possibility to go towards or against those opposing arguments.

Because someone believes something doesn’t make it fact. Maybe that’s faith. Or hope. Or trust. Or stubbornness. Maybe its ignorance. But it is certainly not fact.

Just because a reviewer may be subjective about a game doesn't mean that they are going into a review biased one way or another - what it means is that they made their mind up during the review process, and they are passing that on to the reader

I agree with this matey. What i'm saying is that there should be a line. Look at gamefaqs for instance... Would you post the vast majoirty of those reviews (after a little fine tuning of course) on our site?

[John Beaulieu]

Is anything fact?

Not so long ago (in the context of the planet) we thought the Earth was flat ... this was catergorically stated as fact. Then someone proved different.

If I don't like something within a game, and say so within a review (giving my reasons why) then surely this is fact from my viewpoint (and anyone else's as well). Just because you might feel differently about the thing I dislike doesn't mean that me not liking it is now false, it just means that your opinion of it is different than mine.