Games Design/Degrees

[GluedOnBeard]

I am probably going to be starting one in September and I was interested to see if anybody here is either looking to do the same, is on one or in the industry itself? If so what are your views on them?

I know it is not an easy line to get into but I am motivated enough to spend countless hours doing the extra work building a portfolio/working for free etc to get there!

I will definitely be taking the years work experience but is this really the best way to go? Or is building up your own games design portfolio and gaining a programming or animation/modeling degree the way forward?

Anyone out there ever considered it and gone down a different route?

ps. Should be starting a blog about games design soon, in general critiquing story lines, anybody else already do this or something similar?

Also if anyone has any links to some good articles or reading material let me know

Also what is your opinion on the majority of games these days, one of the reasons I really got down this line of thought is through generally being appalled at some of the thought processes that go into some games :/ For me the quality of games overall could be much better with more thought in the initial stages!

[mmcg]

I'd like to work in the games industry, but I just wouldn't know where to start.

And I'm probably not creative enough to something like game design.

[NekoFever]

Edge quite often do features and supplements on getting into the industry. Those are worth looking out for, and they also have ads from both developers who are hiring (maybe worth mining to see what qualifications they look for) and universities who do courses.

Also try just getting your name out there. You hear all the time about developers who got their break from working on popular mods, and even studios have come out that way (look at Trauma Studios and their Desert Combat mod). Having a game played by millions of people says a lot more than any qualifications

The final thing I can think of is listening to certain podcasts, particularly official ones from developers (off the top of my head: Bungie, Insomniac, Blizzard, Kojima Productions) where they'll often talk to members of the team about how they got to work there and what their background is. Also one called Gaming Steve which is a bit irregular but often talks about getting into the industry.

Hope that helps

[ezee ryder]

What side of gaming do you want to get into mate? That is the key question you have to ask yourself. I am doing a Computer Games Design & Programming course and am in my final year, I would say choose a specific area and do a degree in that. The course I am on teaches you the core/foundations of design, programming, physics, 3D modelling but never really gets in depth in one particular area. I went to the games careers fair last year and the advice most developers gave was "develop yourself in one area, don't be a jack of all trades" and "work on a portfolio, especially if your area is 3D modelling or programming". I have been working on my own little projects on the side with some mates while also working on getting my degree. I want to get into the games design area of things, if I could go back in time I would do a specific course which concentrated on design rather then bits of everything.

[GluedOnBeard]

Thanks, will definitely check those out, are edges articles posted online at all afterwards? If not I think ill start picking up a copy of Edge every month

Other than that I hear you on the having a game played is worth a lot more. Experience in anything is always worth more than theory. Just good I have a interest and games design is incredibly varied Got to get those ideas rolled out and patent my ideas, got a few already but working on a few things first. Would be great to get a group of people and take a small quirky game from design to release but its quite a tough thing to find more than just one and although I can program and do anything on the art side I am not adept enough to do it as a one man project :/

Ezee: I really want to get into a games design role, the course I am looking at is concentrated solely on games design itself. But I was unsure whether I should not just go into and animation/modeling course to get my foot in the door and do the games design work in my own time. I have been trying to find out how likely you are to get into a games design role if that is all you have without any major skills in one area, like script writing, animation or programming. From the feedback I am getting with a strong portfolio of ideas it would be great to get the core skills and also with the years work placement in the course which would place me in a designers role for a year its pretty invaluable!

[mmcg]

So would you say it'd worth teaching myself to program and then creating little projects in my free time?

It's gonna be a year before I can go to college or uni as I'm too late to apply this year.

I was thinking of doing a HND in Software Development and then taking that to Uni to do gaming. Is that any good?

Also, is it possible to create my own games from modding? Or is that limited to maps/game modes etc.? I have a couple ideas for COD4 maps, not sure if they've been done as I play on 360, also got an idea for a FPS that I think could be quite cool.

Cheers for the help.

[NekoFever]

Thanks, will definitely check those out, are edges articles posted online at all afterwards? If not I think ill start picking up a copy of Edge every month

They have certain features and job listings here, which is Edge's current online home. I'd still recommend buying it if you're serious about getting into the industry, though.

Have you looked into the XNA Creators Club if you want to put something together? I don't know all the ins and outs (only really what I gathered from GDC) but it's my understanding that you get to program for the 360 and PC through it, access to the community support, and if you make something good enough that a lot of people vote for there's a chance of it being published as an Xbox Live Arcade game. It makes one-man projects a bit more feasible.

There's also Steamworks, which could come in handy for putting out a PC game and getting it out to a large audience. Again, I only know what I've been told about that.

[ezee ryder]

Ezee: I really want to get into a games design role, the course I am looking at is concentrated solely on games design itself. But I was unsure whether I should not just go into and animation/modeling course to get my foot in the door and do the games design work in my own time. I have been trying to find out how likely you are to get into a games design role if that is all you have without any major skills in one area, like script writing, animation or programming.

You are right about getting your foot in the door because firstly it makes you contacts and secondly it gets you industry experience. That is why I would say choose a course which offers a years work experience but make sure the university has good industry links. I would definately say do some work in your own time whether that be working on small projects with some mates or doing some mods of other games. If you go for that games design course look at what modules are being taught on the course and what you will be taught. I'm pretty sure you will get taught the basics of other disciplines such as programming because as a designer you will still need to have some knowledge of these.

[GluedOnBeard]

Thanks Yeah XNA I was very interested in, I will have to check out the forums asap and see what the scene is like, there are apparently quite a few people being picked up from developing in it. Would probably have to come up with a few ideas with the live arcade in mind before venturing into that one

Have not heard anything on steamworks so will be worth a check too!

Bookmarked that page, got so much to read up on!

Does anyone know a good site/book where they have examples of big projects and the design work leading up to it. As no matter how many articles you read you never seem to see the actual process and every area and aspect of it to get down to every single level.

Ezee: Yeah It has a module in the first year dedicated to programming then in the second one dedicated to modeling, the other modules are about structuring, preparing a bit on the financial side etc, game mechanics, I am trying to get opinions on the course by sending the modules to some companies. The univeristy is Northumbria who while not having the best links, do rate highly and reflections are also quite closely tied to them being newcastle based, I did some games testing there last time and had a chat to the guy who said they usually give a lot of opportunities to students on the games courses.

[Flabio]

The advice I tend to give is that if it's specifically programming you want to get into, do a full-on Computer Science degree rather than one of the games ones.

They're harder, more respected, and if you realise that the games industry isn't really what you want to be doing after all a BSc in CS is more likely to land you a job outside the industry than a BA in games design.

You have plenty of time on a degree to teach yourself game coding fundamentals alongside the degree. I got my first job with no portfolio at all, just a solid degree and the ability to handle the interview questions. Admittedly, this was during a 'boom' period (just after the launch of the PSOne)

The other piece of advice, and one that is generally less well received, is that expecting to walk out of a degree into a job as a games designer is insane. Games Designer is the plum job, top of the tree, the one that most people working in the industry aspire to, so unless you're starting your own company you're going to have to expect to grind for a few years in a different discipline. Some comapnies do hire junior game designers to assist their main designers, but it's hardly a glamour role.

[Rossco]

Yeh try and progress yourself in one subject of it all. I used to do Computer Science but quit because programming wasn't my game and I'm now in second year of Computer Animation. The course varies alot and so far we have focused mainlly 2D but next year is pretty much all 3D which I'm looking forward to more as thats what I want too into in the end!

[GluedOnBeard]

Thanks for the feedback, hmmm I am starting to hear this more and more now, hopefully on the open day they are going to have a few key speakers there to put questions too but now I will definitely be applying for the animation course I already have some experience with 3dsmax and maya and enjoy that a lot more than programming!

Flabio yeah the junior positions and possible internships that are hopefully being offered in the future at a fair few companies was what I was looking into but now I am more inclined to do as you say.

[Bort]

The other piece of advice, and one that is generally less well received, is that expecting to walk out of a degree into a job as a games designer is insane. Games Designer is the plum job, top of the tree, the one that most people working in the industry aspire to, so unless you're starting your own company you're going to have to expect to grind for a few years in a different discipline. Some comapnies do hire junior game designers to assist their main designers, but it's hardly a glamour role.

QFT.

Don't go into a course and expect it to teach you everything. If you aren't already doing/learning the speciality that you are going to be aiming for (modelling, anim, programming, scripter, effects etc) then from experience you aren't going to be walking into a game job at the end.

A few bullet points. Woo!

• Always finish what you start. Even if it's a ****ty model or program. You learn more this way.
• Do mod work. Good for the CV and you learn about team work and the way projects come together.
• Get real criticism and feedback. Don't post your work on here or fansites looking for feedback. You will just be placated or sucked up to. Join real dev communities and expect to have your work ripped apart. This is vital.

If you're going to go down the art side then don't aim for the money shot of char artist (unless you are good enough). The art side is separating all the time so there are more positions to aim for. Environments, visual effects etc. Much easy to get a job doing them.

[GluedOnBeard]

No course can teach you everything which is why like you say experience in any form is a must.

I will take your advice on joining some dev boards and posting work. I always usually get rid of work I dont like so I will have to keep finishing everything then I suppose!!

Thanks for the info on the breakdown of artist roles, I would probably be best suited to environments, so will look into that now.

So much information to take in just now and my list of questions is ever expanding!!

[Flabio]

There's an awful lot more diveristy of role in games companies now than when I started. Here's a rough list of all the roles on the team I'm on (not counting junior, standard, senior and lead distinctions which exist for most of these roles)

Character Artist
Environment Artist
Visual Effects Artist
GUI (and other 2d elements) Artist
Technical Artist
Concept Artist
Character Animator
Technical Animator
Level designer
Gameplay Scripter
Gameplay Designer
Producer
Development Manager
AI Programmer
Simulation Programmer
3d Engine Programmer
Audio Engine Programmer
Core Architecture Programmer
Tools Programmer
GUI Programmer
Composer
Foley Artist
Writer
Voice Over Director
Voice Actor
Tester