PGR2 30fps Like or dislike?

[Hodge]

If anyone goes over to the bizarre creation forums they would of noticed recently that theres been a huge debate over the game being confirmed of running at 30fps. I know theres quite a few racing fans on this forum so what are your views on the matter? For me it`s a dissapointment. When playing a racing game these days the most important aspect of the game (besides the actually game) is 60fps. It was perfectly fine in the PS1/saturn era but most people having come accustomed to the 60fps standard these days and it just feels like there taking 2 steps back. It`s all nice with it having FSAA, bump mapping, environment mapping, hi rez textures etc but half of the time you won`t even notice this stuff while racing but what you will notice that it ain`t as smooth as it should be and another disadvantage is that graphics never look as sharp in 30fps as they do in 60fps. I`l still buy it as it should be a great game but they will loose alot of sales cause of it.

[Burai]

As long as it's locked, it's not really a problem. A framerate that fluctuates between 60 and 20 FPS is far more annoying.

It's rather disappointing though, that this great super-exciting beast of a console that was meant to change the world and kick the ass of anything seen before it can't both look and run better than the three year old competition.

It's now that Microsoft pay the price for sticking brute force components in there, rather than create a dedicated, games-optimised architecture like Sony and Nintendo and, before them, Sega did.

[martTM]

For me it`s a dissapointment.

Got to ask... have you played it? Most likely not. I went up to Bizarre the other day for a demo day and came away suitably impressed with what I saw. Believe me, this game looks and moves so nicely that framerate isn't an issue - and like my esteemed colleague above said, a stable 30fps is far better than a fluctuating 60fps. If you saw what it was trying to do, you'd get it... particularly when doing eight-player online with no change whatsoever.

Just because we can reach that 60fps these days, doesn't mean we have to - only the trained eye can really notice and if you're too busy picking holes in the framerate, you're obviously not trying to enjoy the game in the way you're meant to.

[Brats]

It's now that Microsoft pay the price for sticking brute force components in there, rather than create a dedicated, games-optimised architecture like Sony and Nintendo and, before them, Sega did.

Quite an assumption there. From the way I see it, BC have chosen to sacrifice frame rate for texture quality and polygon count. Personally i thought PGR looked fine and dandy and ran well at 60 fps.

Personally I would rather sacrifice image for frame rate, but I won't lose any sleep over it. I don't see how you can blame the XBox architecture though. It could be any number of things including the ability of the developer. How do we know that if Polyphony weren't unleashed on the XBox that they wouldn't achieve better results?

Apex ran at 60 fps I think and that looked gorgeous. Soul Calibur at 720p looks absolutely incredible. I'm not being an XBox fanboy, but I don't think the hardware's at fault here.

[Brats]

Just because we can reach that 60fps these days, doesn't mean we have to - only the trained eye can really notice and if you're too busy picking holes in the framerate, you're obviously not trying to enjoy the game in the way you're meant to.

I have to say that I can tell the difference between 30fps and 60 fps quite easily, but you're right in that no-one should really judge the game until we've played it. That FPS sacrifice could result in an amazing game with better AI and draw distance as a result.

[revisedgenocide]

As has been said. If it remains locked at 30fps then i dont really mind.
Im mainly looking forward to the opportunities offered up by online racing. I was addicted to Moto gp for some time. Trying to up my ranking every day.

[Hodge]

I wasn`t saying i`m dissapointed in the game, i was saying i`m disapointed that it`s not running at 60fps. BTW Brats apex ran at 30fps not 60 and it ruined the lovely graphics for me cause of it as they ended up looking quite blurry where 60fps makes everything look razor sharp detail wise. Seeing that most of my gaming collection is made up of racing games i might be abit more fussy than others and to say that a trained eye can only notice 60fps is being abit naive marttm as it is very noticable especially in racing games wheres everything is zipping along at a pace. As i said i will still buy it as it will be a great game but it`s just a shame we are having to go back to a bog standard 30fps in this day and age on a supposed worlds most powerful console.

[MonkeyWrench]

Apex ran at 60 fps I think and that looked gorgeous. Soul Calibur at 720p looks absolutely incredible. I'm not being an XBox fanboy, but I don't think the hardware's at fault here.

Apex runs at 30fps, there was a big hoo-haa over that when it was revealed too.


As for the 30fps debate. I'm not too fussed as long as it is locked. One of my all time fave racing games, Le Mans 24 Hour on the Dreamcast, also ran at 30fps and that didn't do the gameplay any harm. I'd take a steady framerate over an irratic one any day, especially where driving games are concerned.

[Burai]

As for the 30fps debate. I'm not too fussed as long as it is locked. One of my all time fave racing games, Le Mans 24 Hour on the Dreamcast, also ran at 30fps and that didn't do the gameplay any harm.

Oh yes, this I agree with. I mean, I still play Wipeout 3 SE now and that was locked at 30FPS. And like you say Le Mans is incredible, even at 30FPS.

But the difference is that PGR2 isn't running on a PSone or a Dreamcast. It's running on the fastest, most powerful video games console in the history of mankind and after coming from the silky smooth 60FPS offered by games like Ridge Racer V, GT3 and F-Zero GX, it seems absurd to be dropping the framerate on a machine that's supposed to eat the PS2 and GC for breakfast.

[Soi]

Visual perception and smoothness is only part of the story with 30 vs 60 FPS. UK television shows 1 frame every 1/25 seconds, and appears smooth. But with a game, your actions on the joypad are converted into actions on the screen. A 30 FPS game updates slower, and therefore feels less smooth than a 60 FPS game.

A 60 FPS will feel more responsive as the results of your actions will appear on the screen twice as fast. Therefore if you start turning left on a 30 FPS game the shortest time you would see the results of your actions (i.e. car turning left on screen) would be 1/30 second. For a 60 FPS the shortest time would obviously be 1/60 second.

I know the difference may not seem much, but it is noticeable. Saying that, there have been many examples of quality 30 FPS racing games, as noted in this thread.

[Smeghead]

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH! it's MSR all over again!!1

Nowt wrong with that, tho 60 solid wudda been preferable, if it's too much for current hardware, then fair enough. Guess u can't have the graphics and frame rate.

I'd also like to second it bein very easy to tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

[Hodge]

I think you got it spot on there sol about the handling differences. I find games running at 60fps always feel far more satisfiying to handle than games at 30fps which can feel a little clunky in comparision. I agree with Burai as well after playing Daytona, Ferrari F355, RRV, GT3, initial D, PGR and FZero at 60, it will feel a step down going back to 30fps and why should we? Ok the game might look fantastic but still i would sacrfice graphical detail for a rock solid 60fps. GT4 looks amazing while doing 60, why shouldn`t this?

[Strider]

From what MartTM has told me, the reasonings behind this are totally justified and I for one am well bloody excited.

[MonkeyWrench]

A 60 FPS will feel more responsive as the results of your actions will appear on the screen twice as fast. Therefore if you start turning left on a 30 FPS game the shortest time you would see the results of your actions (i.e. car turning left on screen) would be 1/30 second. For a 60 FPS the shortest time would obviously be 1/60 second.

Not only that, but the physic sampling is halved too, as it usually matches the framerate, which can have an affect on the handling.

[nips]

Do be frank. I get so taken by most games that I can't tell the difference in frame rate.

If I'm told before hand, I can notice, but normally I'm past it.

I'm therefore quite happy to have a game run at 30fps with lush detail as it brings me into the game more...

I can also appreciate that others would much prefer to have a game that runs at 60fps which I think is totally fair.

But as was said previously, if it is consistent, I don't mind. If the frame rate is all over the shop the illusion is broken and I lose the bond with the game which makes it pointless!