Japanese Racers: What went wrong?

[Leon Retro]

In the 90s, Japanese racing games were generally better and more popular than anything western devs offered gamers.

We had Virtua Racing, Daytona, Ridge Racer, Ace Driver, Sega Rally, Scud Race, Mario Kart, F-Zero etc....

This decade, though, I've seen Japanese devs fail on the whole, to deliver the kind of racing experiences that enthuse gamers into buying the titles.

Ferrari F355: Despite being a stunning racer - it wasn't enough to convince the mass market to purchase a Dreamcast.

F-Zero GX: Another stunning game - that failed to find the success it deserved.

Outrun2: A great looking, fun to play racer, that met with general apathy from journalists and gamers.

RidgeRacer 6/7: A succesful expansion of the Ridge Racer style - these games have modern visuals, amazing speed and smoothness, and are fun to play. Sadly... they haven't received much positivity from magazines or gamers.

Sega Rally: This modern update has nice visuals, some cool features( leaving mud tracks that affect the racing etc.. ) ... and plays pretty well. Journalists were reasonably positive towards it - but.. with the gamers of the world, it didn't even register a blip on their radar.

There are other titles - such as Initial D, TokyoHighwayChallenge etc... The list goes on and on.


Gran Turismo is one of the only Japanese racing series' that has continued to find success this decade - and even then... you hear a lot of people saying that the series has run out of steam, and that they prefer western racing titles these days.


So... to conclude. Is it a case of western racers genuinely be better than the majority of eastern racers, or is it just a case of bad luck on the part of the Japanese developers?

Maybe, as I tend to feel, the fact is that Japanese devs have rested on their laurels, and have failed to understand what the mass market racing fans desire. It could be that Japanese publishers aren't commiting enough money, energy, and people to their racing projects?

It amazes me that all the big Japanese publishers consistently release racing games that fail to find global success. What is the problem?

[Kongster]

This gen, western devs are prospering and Japanese devs are lagging behind and not just in the racing genre. Swings and roundabouts innit?

[Dogg Thang]

What western racers do you have in mind? RR7, for me, is probably my favourite racer around and that's one of the Japanese one you mentioned.

I guess part of it is that it seems to me that Japanese devs seem very reluctant to vary a formula once they feel they've got it right. So some of those games got a little stagnant. It's not that they were bad at all. They weren't. Some of those on your list are great. But few of them feel fresh. GT felt like it ran out of steam to me by the time it got to the third, but that's just me.

Now western devs can churn sequel after sequel out too but there seems to be a timing thing here. Many of the western racers I can think of (and I'm not thinking of many to be honest so I'm curious what ones I'm not thinking of) hit after some of those JP games started to feel a little samey. Burnout is one that springs to mind. That game came in and kicked ass, and rightfully so. It was a new game in so many ways. And, actually, now that I think of it, maybe it does show more of a willingness to try new things - would many JP devs have risked something like Paradise? One that really does change the formula and even dropped some of the favourite modes. I don't know.

[J0e Musashi]

Lol! Great comedy thread.

[Leon Retro]

Lol! Great comedy thread.

It is, if you don't grasp what I'm getting at.

I'm not saying Japanese racers are poor. I'm saying that the big mass market side of gaming - doesn't embrace Japanese racing games.

This decade it's been all about Need For Speed, PGR, Burnout, and recent hits such as GRID.

It's clear that Western racing devs have really been clever and focused with their titles. They've created titles that enthuse - and excite the broad spectrum of gamers.

The Japanese have delivered excellent racers; such as Outrun2, RidgeRacer 6/7, Ferrari F355 etc...Though, they haven't had anywhere near the impact of the big western racers.

Times have changed. I think Japanese publishers have lost enthusiasm for racing games - and when they do make a title, they don't commit anywhere near the energy or resources to it, that they do with the likes of Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Sonic The Hedgehog etc...

Gran Turismo being the obvious exception.

My favourite racers this decade have been Outrun2, RidgeRacer 6&7. With PGR 2/3/4 being my favourite western racers. I've always loved Japanese racers, far more than most western developed titles.

I've been amazed that no Japanese dev has tried to, or even beaten Burnout at its own game.

Where are the amazing Japanese racers, that truly make people stand-up and take notice? ... Even Gran Turismo5, hasn't received the enthusiasm you would expect. Though that may change with the final version.

I see a severe lack of excellent Japanese racers on the racing scene. GRID, PGR, Need For Speed, are winning the race by a mile.

[Fuddle]

perhaps the problem is that japanese developed racers are just that. racers. and that alone. these days many people arent satisfied with simply getting better and driving round and round. they want storys/plot and expansive worlds within all genres. even if they dont really need or suit them. so you end up with need for speed or burnout paradise which seem to offer much more to the core gaming audience these days.
looking at something like outrun 2 or initial d, they have very small track lists that have to be perfected, and thats not what most folk want any more. they want a game they can 'finish'.

[jamesy]

And you need a choice of about a million body kits, alloys etc
I've never really seen any advertisements for the likes of outrun2, rr7 whereas NFS stuff is everywhere.

[Leon Retro]

perhaps the problem is that japanese developed racers are just that. racers. and that alone.

looking at something like outrun 2 or initial d, they have very small track lists that have to be perfected, and thats not what most folk want any more. they want a game they can 'finish'.

You are right. Japanese racers such as Outrun2, RidgeRacer7, are pure racers, very much 80s/90s in style. You drive a car fast - and simply enjoy getting better at it.

Journalists moaned about Outrun2 being simplistic. Yes.. it is on the surface, but... it does contain a beautiful game world, and exciting gameplay. Sadly.. that's not enough to find success with most gamers.

RidgeRacer, I can only deduce, is seen as very archaic in style and atmosphere. It's like Namco are flogging a horse - that not many people care about anymore.

I've always bought Ridge Racer games - though.. I can easily identify why the series has lost its appeal. It just doesn't have a very modern look or feel - that grabs the attention of the casual market.

The fact is, we have a very 'mass market focused' games industry now... and the Japanese publishers don't seem able, or willing to identify what kind of racing experiences would appeal to masses.

I think the Japanese could convincingly beat Burnout, GRID, PGR etc... Sadly, Japanese publishers don't seem willing to commit to giving it a try. They are too reliant on sticking to what they know - rather than being adventurous.

Maybe things will change? ... I can only hope for a Japanese racing revolution.

[merf]

Lol! Great comedy thread.

this is a comedy thread, who cares where the hell they come from ?

there are loads of great racers, its a golden age, the fact none are japanese developed is neither here or there.

[DCharlie]

I don't know if the japanese can beat the games mentioned. Technically they've been falling behind for some time now. It's also taking them much longer to get stuff out because a lot of the tech savvy teams are aligned behind the Ps3 which has a much harsher learning curve due to it's fruity architecture.

GT5P wowed people at first, but now we are 2 years into the PS3's life and we've just got a new "GT5P spec III". The game is getting slowly incremented, but it's still very light on content after all this time. Meanwhile over in the west, Forza 2 dropped last year and Forza 3 is just about to drop.

It's not just racers too - a lot of Japanese houses are struggling with next gen.

[Leon Retro]

this is a comedy thread, who cares where the hell they come from ?

there are loads of great racers, its a golden age, the fact none are japanese developed is neither here or there.

To say it's a comedy thread is harsh, and narrow minded.

Of course lots of gamers are interested in where a game comes from. To say the contrurary - is ridiculous.

We all know that Japan has its own distinct culture, as does America, and the European countries.

British gaming culture has a rich creative heritage - as does France etc...

To not be interested in cultural differences - is very apathetic.

I enjoy what every country has given to the gaming world. It's the diversity of creative ideas and styles - that make gaming so interesting.

Japanese racers were, and still are different to western ones. Western devs learnt how to beat the Japanese at their own game. It was a very different racing scene 10-years ago.

I don't know if the japanese can beat the games mentioned. Technically they've been falling behind for some time now. It's also taking them much longer to get stuff out because a lot of the tech savvy teams are aligned behind the Ps3 which has a much harsher learning curve due to it's fruity architecture.

GT5P wowed people at first, but now we are 2 years into the PS3's life and we've just got a new "GT5P spec III". The game is getting slowly incremented, but it's still very light on content after all this time. Meanwhile over in the west, Forza 2 dropped last year and Forza 3 is just about to drop.

It's not just racers too - a lot of Japanese houses are struggling with next gen.

The Japanese aren't technically behind when it comes to visuals and engines. It's just a sad fact... that the publishers put their best people on to what they see as far more important genres; such as Survival Horror, Action, RPGs.

My whole point with this topic - is not to slate the Japanese racing games around, or to say I hate western racing games. I think it's strange that Japanese racing games have fallen behind - to a point where a lot of gamers act like they don't exist, because they are so content with the likes of Burnout, Forza, PGR, Need For Speed, GRID etc...

I find it strange, and very confusing that the Japanese games industry only really has one heavyweight racing franchise now( Gran Turismo ) ... and even that isn't setting pulses racing - in the way it should be.

[saif]

J games, generally, are somewhat stuck in a rut and, imho, it is due to the general market in Japan at the mo. Casual gaming has almost destroyed the Japanese market with tons and tons of non-games proliferating. So gamer's games are becoming a little more niche and the DS/Wii market is making tons of cash with other software.

My opinion anyway.

[DCharlie]

The Japanese aren't technically behind when it comes to visuals and engines.

well, i think that's probably a whole different thread , i think as you say the shake down of the industry (PS3 not setting the world on fire and being painful to code, and the Wii swinging the Japanese demographic back to nintendo) is only part of the story.

who cares where the hell they come from ?

oh you'd be surprised! There are people out there who won't touch a game not made in one place or the other. It's insane stuff, but each to their own.

to a point where a lot of gamers act like they don't exist

we haven't had too many racers from Japan though right? Initial D, RR6/7, GT5P, TK Highway racing... i'm sure there are more, but even by sheer weight of numbers, the western market is much larger so i guess they are going to get pushed aside. And hell, titles like Sega Rally Revo are now farmed out to the west (was a good old style game too i thought!)

[Leon Retro]

well, i think that's probably a whole different thread , i think as you say the shake down of the industry (PS3 not setting the world on fire and being painful to code, and the Wii swinging the Japanese demographic back to nintendo) is only part of the story.


oh you'd be surprised! There are people out there who won't touch a game not made in one place or the other. It's insane stuff, but each to their own.



we haven't had too many racers from Japan though right? Initial D, RR6/7, GT5P, TK Highway racing... i'm sure there are more, but even by sheer weight of numbers, the western market is much larger so i guess they are going to get pushed aside. And hell, titles like Sega Rally Revo are now farmed out to the west (was a good old style game too i thought!)

Technically brilliant racing games aren't going to appear on the Wii - so that won't figure. The PS3 is hard to develop for - and not as succesful as the Japanese had hoped for.

The 360 is very popular in the west. I imagine that's one of the major reasons why western games do so well on the machine - because the Japanese devs aren't commited to it.

So, the strange market conditions, are probably a big factor in why Japanese racing games are low in numbers, and not very popular when they do appear.


I personally love games from all over the world; as long as they are good. Many countries has given gaming plenty of gems over the years. The British have their own eccentric style - as do the French. The Americans know how to make in-ya-face powerful experiences.

For many people, especially seasonsed console gamers, Japan does have a special place in their hearts. It is the spiritual home of gaming; simply because it has delivered soooo many brilliant games over the years.


You've hit on another point that I briefly mentioned. There has definitely been a severe lack of racing games from Japan. The reason as to why, is something I can only guess at.

I find it sad that the Japanese racing scene isn't as active and exciting as it once was. Maybe things will change? The Japanese publishers need to believe in the genre again - and truly commit to making AAA racers, aimed at a global market.

[DCharlie]

For many people, especially seasonsed console gamers, Japan does have a special place in their hearts. It is the spiritual home of gaming; simply because it has delivered soooo many brilliant games over the years.

without a doubt, but i think for the sanity of this thread, we shouldn't delve too deeply on that subject or it'll end up being a purely Japan vs the west slagging fest!

On the racing front, i would love to see another Ridge. The Ridge Vision 2010 is probably lying dead in a gutter right now and that's sad. Ridge's style and familiarity is what i like about it - it's as close to an old style arcade racer as we seem to be getting these days (outside of Battle Gear and a few others). And Sega Rally Revo of course (which is now a western developed game) which is decent arcade racing.