Idiots

[rjpageuk]

Good game, but not 10/10 standard, not by a long shot

And for everyone one of you there is another person who will say the exact opposite.

I am sure you would give F-Zero GX 10/10 and for everyone one of you there is someone else who would say the opposite.

Sorry to use what you said in the arguement as a whole, but I cant help but agree with the majority of what Brats has said in this thread.

You can analyse the design stucture all you want but it doesnt make one bit of difference - you play games for fun, and each of us have different things we enjoy.

After all we arent all listening to Mozart and Beethoven are we?

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

It's weird. I was just thinking about starting a thread on cleverly designed games that play like ****. That could go down a treat.

[Brats]

You should play the Marathon series and see where Halo came from. The story, for one, is really rather special and the singleplayer campaign is noticeably more consistent (the latter being an old Bungie character trait). This, however, is just my opinion.

I'm a big fan of the Marathon series, as you should well know.

I do think though that Halo has been championed for all the wrong reasons, and that there are far better FPS games out there. This is both my opinion and a fact

And therein lies the issue. You state opinion as fact. I will disagree with you until the heavens turn red with fire that what you say has any more basis in fact than those that dismissed F-Zero so quickly.

No, it's not the crux of the matter at all. I couldn't give a monkeys if Saurian was the most skilled gamer in the world. I saw a guy post a thread about the negativity of other gamers and yet I had seen evidence of him doing exactly the same thing elsewhere, so I pointed it out. I would have done the same if it were anyone else. Your defence of Saurian comes across as far more clouded than my initial post. You back up Saurian by implying that his own criticisms have some basis and therefore are valid. I call bull**** on that one.

The difference is that Saurian is coming from the perspective of an experienced and skilled gamer.

And I'm not? Saurian amy well be an skilled gamer in certain genres, but not all of them. Just because he could kick my arse on VF4 Evo, what makes his opinions any more valid?

Saurian knows what he is talking about. You could call bull**** it on that, but I would think you would be compensating for your ignorance.

Talk about miss the point. I called Bull**** on your defence of him, not on what Saurian said per se, although I do take issue with the double standards he shows.

Personally, I show considerably more humility (rather than insecurity) when I listen to what more experienced individuals have to say for themselves. Then again, that is just me.

Stop with the holier than thou pretensions, it really doesn't suit you. You show practically zero humility to anyone else.

They don't brush off games, I think this belies the fact that you take their comments on gaming a little too personally. Saurian, and his ilk, are eminently reasonable and logical individuals. Admittedly they do get angry and a wee bit cussed at times, but I don't think it negates the truth that they espouse.

Wrong. There are plenty of circumstances where Saur has brushed of gamers, genres, Western players, etc.. He can be just as negative as the rest of us, but according to yourself, that's okay because he's a skilled, knowledgable gamer .

I'm not going to list any examples here even though I could, because this is not a character assasination of Saurian, I was merely pointing out that he is not blameless when it comes to his accusation of:

are people too busy bitching about games to play them?

And that is the crux. Imo his post was a tad hypocritcial and amongst the agreements and back slapping, I chose to point that out. I didn't "chastise" him as you wrongly suggested. I would have done the same if it had been anyone else, although I feel you don't seem to believe me on that as you continuously mention Saurian being singled out in the past. Allow me just a little bit of faith please. Not everyone who criticises Saur is on a witchunt .

Yet those critics are working upon the same tenets of form and structure. The fact that they come to different outcomes shows the strength and versatility of their analytical form.

But they totally disagree about the quality of the form and structure, which is my point. Ergo, we can both disagree on the quality of the form and structure of Halo and both have equally valid opinions. You seem unable to grasp that simple concept.

Saurian is angry, yet he stills speaks the truth.

So the comment "there are many genres of games that people play not just FPS" about the XBox is truth is it? Saurian may be a skilled gamer and excellent fellow, but it doesn't make him automatically right on everything.

I see my enjoyment as subjective. My mecha fetish is utterly subjective. I will be any game that has mecha in it. This, however, does not and will not make it a good game. If I championed all games with mecha in, that would be callous and I would be justifiably open for criticism. I am not doing that though. I am talking about the design of games.

So am I? Isn't that obvious?

I think Halo is still playable regardless of what design traits it does or does not have. That is not the issue though. You are mistaking your personal preference as my analytical structure. Halo is a fun "experience", but as a game it is structurally flawed.

No, No, No, No, NO! You really do not get it do you? I fully recognise your analytical structure. All I am merely saying is that such musings are subjective.

I have to wonder, do you actually read what I write?

Iam merely professing fact as fact.

Clearly your definition of fact differentiates from the rest of the world. The point that Halo has repetitive game design is fact. The point that it is bad design is arguably fact. But the point that it makes the entire game a badly designed game is opinion.

These aren't very difficult concepts to grasp, surely?

[dataDave]

Good game, but not 10/10 standard, not by a long shot

And for everyone one of you there is another person who will say the exact opposite.

I am sure you would give F-Zero GX 10/10 and for everyone one of you there is someone else who would say the opposite.

Oh, I know that matey. I'm just voicing my opinion to the fray that this thread has become - I don't even understand half of it! LOL. I'm just trying to bring things down to ground level.

I'd give F-Zero a 9/10 btw, it's no NiGHTS.

Halo gets a 7/10.

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

Nights is a cleverly designed game, but it's also badly flawed in just about every other area.

Haha!

You can bitch about anything! I love this!

[Oh! My Car!]

Saurian you just gotta feel the love and not the hate.

dude, it's hard to miss, those fricking dumb-ass fanboys without an once of objectiveness in their life....

[PeteJ]

If nothing decent happens in this thread soon, it shall be closed.

[dataDave]

Nights is a cleverly designed game, but it's also badly flawed in just about every other area.

Haha!

You can bitch about anything! I love this!

Boo!!

Flawed where? I'd better be careful not to 'trip up' over my opinion here so I'll keep schtum!

For every one person that says that there will be another who says different blah blah blah...

LOL.

I don't think his forum is designed very nicely, do you? It's far too grey and doesn't stand out - the font colours are homogh3y too. And who's that guy with the beard up on the top right? This place lacks DEPTH!

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

Ding-ding! Semantics war round nine, FIGHT!

I think we've all made our points here, and the dreaded multiple quoting shows that this thread should now make a swift, and still vaguely dignified exit.