Whatever happened to: 3D platformers?

[toythatkills]

Before I played Final Fantasy VII and became some kind of RPG obsessed nutbar, I loved a romp through a platform game. After being brought up on 2D platformers, the move to 3D was an inevitable source of joy.

The Playstation, N64 era had loads of great ones, if I stored games in my brain they would be literally coming out of my ears. It seemed like every week a new character was coming out with a new platform game.

And then... Nothing. I realise there's been loads of games since then but they've all been not good enough. Either they've been genuinely rubbish, or they've been full to bursting with annoying gimmicks (weapons! buddies! magic special moves! vehicles!) - just not traditional enough. I realise also that there's loads of other games one could class as kind of platformers (Tomb Raider? Prince of Persia? Uncharted?) but they're wrong. I want to play as a cartoon character and collect 100 things for an extra life while jumping on enemies heads, or something.

So far this generation, I count Super Mario Galaxy among the good, traditional platformer. Where have they all gone? When did platform games start becoming universally ****? Why can't anyone but Nintendo make a good one anymore?

Am I to play Mario64 every single time I want to play a platformer? There's only so many times one can complete that game.

[Persocom]

Hey toythatkills.

Ah... platformers were my favourite genre too. They just aren't platformers anymore. They're all about moving forward, beating everything up and then making it to a cut scene. The new crash and spyro games are more akin to Golden Axe than anything else.

All I have played this generation that have pleased me, would be Kameo, Banjo Kazooie and Mario Galaxy.

There were a good few games I missed out on with the PS2 and cube, so I'm currently plowing my way through those.

All I want at the end of the day is a challenging platformer, with loads of treasure to find, no emphasis on combat, more on exploration and VARIED worlds. Not just the same dull industrial environment or whatever.

I don't think developers get that we have more than enough first person shooters. What we need are more developers like rareware. Who are willing to make something cute, funny and FUN TO PLAY. Imagination is bloody rare these days.

[rmoxon]

Mario Galaxy is probabaly the only truley great one released recently, however...

The Wii version of Sonic Unleashed is suppose to be quite good, much better than the 360/PS3 version of the game anyway. Another decent Wii Platformer is De Blob, though I'm using the term "platform" pretty lightly in regads too it I suppose.

Personaly I love Ratchet and Clank on the PS3, but thats about it for that console I think.

On the 360 I thought Banjo Kazooie was a bit crap to be honest, tough Kameo was pretty fun and very much like a platformer in places.

Besides that... err, yeah, actualy I can see what you mean really....

[Alf81]

Recently I played through Klonoa for the PSX and enjoyed every bit of it. First thing after was buying myself a copy of Klonoa 2 for the PS2 (again). Sadly I don't think the games gets the recognition they truly are worthy of.

Actually there is a remake of the original Klonoa for Wii out now.

[NekoFever]

I was really disappointed that Banjo wasn't a traditional platformer. I know it sounds silly in these days when originality is everything, but we haven't had a proper, old-fashioned, nice-looking 3D platformer for the HD consoles and Ratchet - I don't consider that a normal platformer, incidentally - has shown how good the art style can look. I'd have been there on day one if it was in the Mario 64/Banjo-Kazooie style.

[Alf81]

Argh... Guess you can't really call the Klonoa games full 3d platformers (to some it's still morning :/).

[Sixty]

It's probably something to do with Nintendo creating pretty much the perfect 3D platformer in Mario 64 right at the start of the 3D generation. What more could be done in the genre after that? It's easy to imagine developers thinking about making a platformer, coming up with a few ideas, and then sighing and thinking, "what's the point?" It's basically all been done before, really.

[Flabio]

Short answer: They don't sell.

[NemesiS]

It's probably something to do with Nintendo creating pretty much the perfect 3D platformer in Mario 64 right at the start of the 3D generation. What more could be done in the genre after that? It's easy to imagine developers thinking about making a platformer, coming up with a few ideas, and then sighing and thinking, "what's the point?" It's basically all been done before, really.

Yeah, but then you could argue that point with every genre. Driving, FPS, RPG. If all developers looked at the competition like HL2, WoW, Fallout 3, RE4, PGR4 etc, there would never be another game made because they would think, "whats the point, we can't better whats already out there". Once a coder feels like that or that his talent to create an original game is stifled due to the existing market, then he shouldn't be making games.

I don't agree that platformers don't sell, i just think that the general soft-co's who do platformers usually make a load of dross and gamers get fed up with buying what they hope will be a Mario beater only to be disappointed. But the Mario games are so far above the competition, that they shouldn't really aim that high. Only by trail and error though will devs start creating ideas for the platformer to have a renaissance again.

I also flamed LBP (2D/3D) as my most disapointing game of 2008. I have actually come round a little bit to it the more i have played it. Not enough to change my mind about my decision though as i still find it boring and occasionally very frustrating. But amongst all the annoyances there are flashes of absolute genius in the game and if LBP had been transferred to full 3D, with a bit more thought and inguenity, it could have been truly amazing.

[Sixty]

Yeah, but then you could argue that point with every genre. Driving, FPS, RPG. If all developers looked at the competition like HL2, WoW, Fallout 3, RE4, PGR4 etc, there would never be another game made because they would think, "whats the point, we can't better whats already out there". Once a coder feels like that or that his talent to create an original game is stifled due to the existing market, then he shouldn't be making games.

I'm not saying it's a healthy attitude to have. It's just a possible reason. As far as those other genres go, I guess developers still see obvious room for improvement or scope for doing different things there, but not so much in 3D platformers. If they did, we'd see more of them.

It's bizarre, really, because if there's one genre where you're free to do anything and implement whatever crazy ideas you like it's surely the 3D platformer.

[fallenangle]

The last and previous generation of consoles had plenty of 3D platformers or I should say games with significant platforming elements but this generation they do seem thin on the ground.

I've always liked them but actually I'm not sure there has ever been such a thing as a 'pure' 3D platformer. Most have always been hybrids.

I'm hard pressed to think of any that don't have additional non-platformy parts. Does the hack and slash of Maximo, the adventure/puzzle elements in Sphinx and The Cursed Mummy or the FPS Exhumed/Powerslave mean they're not 'true' platformers? t

[Brats]

I think the traditional cute 3D platformer has strangely disappeared, however there are plenty of other genres that have adopted strong platform elements. Crackdown features more platform jumping than anything else (and you collect stuff).

Conversely the cute character game has moved away from platformers. The Maw, Zack & Wiki and De Blob look like a traditional platformers, but aren't.

I think the mix up of styles is a good thing.

[Golgo]

this thread raises a good question.
i'd love to see another jak and daxter (first one, before it went 'dark'), and i'd kill to see a new ape escape (ps1 version)! both of em gave the mighty mario64 a run for its money, in my opinion.
super mario galaxy is great, though. but i've got 120 stars and don't fancy it again with that luigi pleb.
luckily i have a virgin copy of psychonauts standing by...

[eastyy]

the first jak and daxter is the only platformer i completed 100%...and i mean found everything

mario 64 i found frustrating.....felt like to Go to the next level....you needed to find stars that were harder to get then i would like with jax that was not the case...and yet i felt compelled to find the hidden ones

[wakka]

I've always liked them but actually I'm not sure there has ever been such a thing as a 'pure' 3D platformer. Most have always been hybrids.

Dude, what about (obviously) Mario 64, but games like Crash Bandicoot, Spyro The Dragon and Croc? Those were all (at least originally) pretty pure platformers.