just how rife is DS Piracy?

[Dirty Sanchez]

I don't buy that argument at all, it was still purchased from new.

The game and it's depreciated value are simply being passed on to a new owner, with the second hand price contributing retroactively to the original purchase. There is no comparison to the unlimited copying of a pirate game, the original owner no longer has any claim, and only one paid-for, usable version of the game can exist.

It was in direct reference to the impact on the developer, a pirate copy brings exactly the same revenue as a second hand game.

[Papercut]

Given what I've said there, that is not true is it. Buying second hand contributes to the cost of the original purchase.

If people didn't buy and sell, people would be buying fewer games in the first place too.

[charlesr]

Second hand sales don't add any more to the total "gaming spend" though. If it wasn't possible to buy 2nd hand:
- sales of new games would increase from the people that bought 2nd hand before
- decrease from the people that previously used 2nd hand to subsidise their new purchases

It's not damaging, but it's not adding anything either.

Piracy is obviously damaging though. If someone gets all their games free, then they are able to spend their money on other industries/gadgets/products. If they were unable to do this, they would have to divert some of their spend towards gaming.

I think this has all been discussed to death before though and this thread is really about the extent of the problem. How about a poll?

[Darwock]

I'd never even heard of an R4, never used a DS either mind.. my girlfriend took her mum's DS to canada with her, came back with an R4 and asked me to show her how to use it. Quite unexpected, lol..

[Dirty Sanchez]

Given what I've said there, that is not true is it. Buying second hand contributes to the cost of the original purchase.

If people didn't buy and sell, people would be buying fewer games in the first place too.

It may offset for the purchaser but the developer still doesn't get an extra slice. You may be assuming that the purchaser would then use that offset to buy another title, but that is just an assumption.

There is little developers can do about piracy, but we've already had the outcry here when single user licences were starting to come about. Locking the title to a single user somehow (downloaded Arcade titles non transferable for example) to me are a good idea, even if that meant the death of the 2nd hand market. You can't have your cake and eat it.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Second hand sales don't add any more to the total "gaming spend" though. If it wasn't possible to buy 2nd hand:
- sales of new games would increase from the people that bought 2nd hand before
- decrease from the people that previously used 2nd hand to subsidise their new purchases

It's not damaging, but it's not adding anything either.

Piracy is obviously damaging though. If someone gets all their games free, then they are able to spend their money on other industries/gadgets/products. If they were unable to do this, they would have to divert some of their spend towards gaming.

I think this has all been discussed to death before though and this thread is really about the extent of the problem. How about a poll?

Agreed but I know some people that wouldn't have a DS at all if they had to pay for the games.

[smouty]

People who pirate games because they can't afford them is part of the reason for the financial 'credit crunch' crisis we are currently in. Not everyone is entitled to have everything and the sooner this frame of mind is accepted the better.
I do have to admit to trying games on a R4 without buying them but I have also bought far more.
On the 360 for example, due to live and demos being available I do not feel the need to copy games.
I used to pre Gamecube\Xbox1 but as mentioned earlier it ruins your enjoyment.
Buying 2nd hand also does not harm the industry in my opinion as it is still cashflow at the end of the day that people can spend on what they want which as a gamer could be new(er) games.

[toythatkills]

Anyone who thinks all of this is lost income for the industry is in cloud cuckooland. One 2gig card holds what, 30 games at ?20 a shot = ?600. None of the parents I have helped could afford that sort of outlay.

God, that's the dumbest, most infuriating argument pro-piracy that's ever been devised, why is it always mentioned every time a piracy thread comes up?

I can't afford a Porsche, therefore it's fine for me to steal one because I wasn't going to buy one anyway? OK.

If people can't afford to buy games then they shouldn't get to play games. Simple as that.

[SH4R4KU]

My R4 sits snugly in my DS and was the only way for me to play Ouendan a couple of years ago. Fantastic game.

Second hand market in a non-linear response to new games. If I sell my games - the money is going in my find for a car. The guy selling the car will be buying a house... it's non-linear.

I also have Adobe Master Collection CS4. I didn't pay £1500 for the damn software and I won't be making a penny from it. Only for fun.

[noobish hat]

God, that's the dumbest, most infuriating argument pro-piracy that's ever been devised, why is it always mentioned every time a piracy thread comes up?

I can't afford a Porsche, therefore it's fine for me to steal one because I wasn't going to buy one anyway? OK.

If people can't afford to buy games then they shouldn't get to play games. Simple as that.

not quite the same thing though, is it? A porche is a physical item, there's only one of each. A digital item that can be copied is a totally different matter.

[RetroEd]

If you can't afford them, don't play them. That's the way I see it. I do have a DSTT with 8GB card and nearing 100 games on it, though. There's no way I'm carrying these around with me everywhere I go.

[toythatkills]

not quite the same thing though, is it? A porche is a physical item, there's only one of each. A digital item that can be copied is a totally different matter.

It's not the same thing, no, but the principle is the same. I don't have enough money to buy a Porsche therefore I have no right to own one.

[kernow]

sure, thats the principle. Thing is people don't realise, or care that they are doing anything wrong when simply copying a file onto a flash cart. Stealing a porsche is more apparent of a crime to them.

When I owned a DS, I bought every game I played though, never owned a flash cart and when I did ever own that sort of hardware I just played around with development and homebrew mainly.

edit: also, I seem to remember modding your PSP, do you run emulators on it? because I don't see that as any different. Sure if you're playing a CPS2 game capcom aren't getting any money for it, which is the same as nintendo not getting any money for you illegally playing their DS game without owning it. But the principle is exactly the same. You're still illegally playing a game by copying it somehow.

[sj33]

I make a point of avoiding downloading newer releases, that is, games which are still a form of income to the publisher. This goes for DS games too. Most people I know are aware of what an R4 is, though I only know 2 people who have a flash cart of sorts

That said, when it comes to games that are more than a few years old... the developers aren't getting money from that £5 copy that you bought from an Amazon seller, so the percieved 'loss' for the developer is equal to that of a downloaded game. The most people get from that is the warm, fuzzy feeling of helping the developer by not downloading, which is a complete falacy.

[noobish hat]

Not everyone can afford food, should they not get to eat? This is a ridiculous exaggeration, but if we're ramping it up to stealing porches, then let's not be coy. What you're saying would be the equivalent of people going into shops and stealing the actual games because they can't afford them. If the person wasn't going to buy the actual game in the first place then using a pirate copy doesn't affect anyone.