BREASTS !

[Nikorasu]

DOAVBX...

Can't see a ten or twelve year old going down to the shop to buy it.

You can't? Surely that's the primary audience?

Can't see many women or girls going to buy it either really.

If you enforce overly offensive sexual material, then obviously it's going to narrow a game's audience down.

No more offensive than any pop video you care to watch, the girls are more covered up than Holly valance say, yet she is primarily bought by young girls. To say that having nubile young girls in a media product stops women/girls buying into it is wrong. Look at Christina Auguilera's bare ass, and Britney's acres of flesh. I couldn't disagree more.

For example, DOAVBX had sex in it so it would sell. In order to help mask what is said to be a fairly shallow game.

No more than any other example above, and to be fair to the game's designer, at least it's aesthetically pleasing - no BMX XXX munters on offer. Just some super smooth pixels.

However, what if the next upcoming mega-hyped RPG had a heroine who only ran around in her lingerie and had a chest the size of China?

Final Fantasy X-2 - the massively selling RPG. Bought because it spices up the sexually repressed character in the previous chapter.
Despite the game's quality on a playing experience level, do you think people who weren't inclined to such themes would rush out and buy it, despite it's merits.

Sex is not the answer to boost sales in troubled times.

But it appears more devcos may beginning to think this way.

Ho-Hum.

True it's not the answer. But beach volleyball is synonymous with bikinis, and this respect the inclusion of nubile girls is totally appropriate.

[Lyris]

They don't enhance the game play for me no, actually large breasted girls are an annoying cliche in games. If the characters get exploited sexually it just gets plain annoying - it's meant to be about the game, not the tits.

[Spatial]

as a female gamer it hasn't ever drawn my attention too much as such but to a male gamer does female characters with large breasts *really* enhance the gaming experience

If you are playing in the same room - then yes - its very distracting.

Regards,
Neil.

LOL

Nice one

Seriously though, can't say its something that enhances my gaming experience.

Hell, I didn't even notice the size of Lara Crofts norks until someone pointed it out to me, and that was at the release of the third game.

I think some games designers have a thing for big boobies mind, and can't seem to design a games heroine without giving her a massive sized chest

[wicky]

seriously though you never see a male with a large package !

[Concept]

You can't? Surely that's the primary audience?

Can't see many women or girls going to buy it either really.

Depending on the rating of the game (which I don't know), then I can't see ten or twelve year olds walking into their nearest EB and getting served a copy if it's 15+ rated. Unfortunately, despite being 21 I've consistently got pulled up for my ID at many a GAME/EB for 18-rated games (The Getaway).

No more offensive than any pop video you care to watch, the girls are more covered up than Holly valance say, yet she is primarily bought by young girls. To say that having nubile young girls in a media product stops women/girls buying into it is wrong. Look at Christina Auguilera's bare ass, and Britney's acres of flesh. I couldn't disagree more.

Hmm. But how many girls do you see modelling themselves on wanting to look like one of the DOA girls? You're talking about market penetration. Holly and Britney are aimed at certain markets in an uniformed way. Boys are attracted because of the sex appeal, girls are attracted because they are made to feel they want to look like that.

In DOA's case, you can forget the later part because of videogaming's overall lack of cultural impact in terms of gender.

How can women ever hope to get involved with videogaming if sex appeal is to be pushed forward more and more simply because the technology allows people to do so? It's a lazy way of targeting an audience and ultimately it'll just further push home the stereotypical cliches of gaming. Games with sex appeal aren't the entire field, but they are the ones which will get the most attention through the media. And I can see it being increasingly negative.

Whereas, pop music is considered to have a whole spectrum and range of 'talent', and thus the marketing diversifies itself towards that belief. Therefore, when pop videos which flaunt sex are shown, there is usually less stigma attached.

It's considered 'sexy'.

Gaming's sexy hasn't reached that level yet because the depth and sophisitication of marketing is fairly one dimensional.

No more than any other example above, and to be fair to the game's designer, at least it's aesthetically pleasing - no BMX XXX munters on offer. Just some super smooth pixels.

Have you heard about the DOAVBX nude patch? Apparently the designers have spent more than just a little time rendering super-smooth pixels. Even if it's not shown in the official game.

Plus, to be fair to BMX XXX designers, I don't think there is anymore nudity than DOAVBX in-game. That all comes from FMV cutscenes. From what I've heard.

Final Fantasy X-2 - the massively selling RPG. Bought because it spices up the sexually repressed character in the previous chapter.
Despite the game's quality on a playing experience level, do you think people who weren't inclined to such themes would rush out and buy it, despite it's merits.

I don't value the Final Fantasy series post FFVII, so I don't believe it has much of quality on a playing experience level, especially if FFX is anything to go by. I've also heard it's scores have been no better either, which hardly inspires me with confidence.

People will go out and buy FF because of it's namesake. I don't think sex is the main selling point of X2 either, not in the same way DOAVBX or BMX XXX is. Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

Games which over-rely on excessive sexual glorification.

Feel free to de-construct every single last sentence if you so wish. Ho-hum.

This is my opinion on the matter.

[Spatial]

seriously though you never see a male with a large package !

Check out the old Spectrum game `Postman Pat`

Now there's a man with a large package ( in fact several, on a daily basis too )

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one

[Chadruharazzeb]

seriously though you never see a male with a large package !

I wouldn't imagine anyone would notice unless they ran around in the nude, which is something nobody would like to see.

[Super Stu]

Concept, surely you can see this is just hentai in tights? It's aimed at a specific market, and those folk will buy it.

Modelling Lara Croft with large breasts has done nothing to dent her image with females, from what I've seen of the net. Look at all the fan sites (run by women), look-a-like sites (obviously run by women).

I think we're getting excited (heh) here over nowt.

[Concept]

I wouldn't imagine anyone would notice unless they ran around in the nude, which is something nobody would like to see.

Too right.

Plus you'd propbably need to create a whole new physics engine for a flapping downstairs area if you had nude men running about.

[Concept]

Stu, I'm more worried about other developers taking a hell-bent approach to sexuality.

Yes, most at the moment are niche games...

But what if a hentai-themed game ends up selling 8-10 million copies? Can you imagine the mainstream media's reaction?

Since this thread is about how gaming culture is percieved and how it is having a wider impact on society... Well games like DOAVBX for me don't exactly help further gaming's cause in trying to convert potential lucrative audiences...

Because, those who aren't familiar with gaming are going to read and see the negative reports and be turned away, thinking that's all there is.

I've got nothing against games exploring sexuality. I just wish, as the dawn of a new technological era is ushered in, that it'd be done a little less crudely.

At least with the big-hit titles.

[JRMacumber]

Concept, surely you can see this is just hentai in tights? It's aimed at a specific market, and those folk will buy it.

Modelling Lara Croft with large breasts has done nothing to dent her image with females, from what I've seen of the net. Look at all the fan sites (run by women), look-a-like sites (obviously run by women).

I think we're getting excited (heh) here over nowt.

Agreed. Concept, I think you're making much ado about nothing. The fact is, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. Buy the games you DO like, thereby supporting the devcos that cater to your desires, so that hopefully they will continue to not make sexually themed games. End of story.

[Nikorasu]

Hmm. But how many girls do you see modelling themselves on wanting to look like one of the DOA girls? You're talking about market penetration. Holly and Britney are aimed at certain markets in an uniformed way. Boys are attracted because of the sex appeal, girls are attracted because they are made to feel they want to look like that.

In DOA's case, you can forget the later part because of videogaming's overall lack of cultural impact in terms of gender.

So therefore because gaming has a smaller market penetration in terms of female player, developers can't include 'sexual' content, which is no more sexual that say Baywatch - free to watch to anyone that so desires?

How can women ever hope to get involved with videogaming if sex appeal is to be pushed forward more and more simply because the technology allows people to do so? It's a lazy way of targeting an audience and ultimately it'll just further push home the stereotypical cliches of gaming. Games with sex appeal aren't the entire field, but they are the ones which will get the most attention through the media. And I can see it being increasingly negative.

For that the blame lies soley on lazy reporters going with the cheap angle. So far sex and games seems limited to BMX XXX (a **** of a game) and DOA: XBV (receiving unfair flack from overly defensive gamers).

Whereas, pop music is considered to have a whole spectrum and range of 'talent', and thus the marketing diversifies itself towards that belief. Therefore, when pop videos which flaunt sex are shown, there is usually less stigma attached.

It's considered 'sexy'.

Gaming's sexy hasn't reached that level yet because the depth and sophisitication of marketing is fairly one dimensional.

Couldn't agree more, certainly in the dedicated press at least. Sony's Third Place ads, though ****e at least try a new approach.

No more than any other example above, and to be fair to the game's designer, at least it's aesthetically pleasing - no BMX XXX munters on offer. Just some super smooth pixels.

Have you heard about the DOAVBX nude patch? Apparently the designers have spent more than just a little time rendering super-smooth pixels. Even if it's not shown in the official game.

That's just them having a laugh, which they are at liberty to do. The developer readily admits to admiring the female form. Look at so many works of art around us in galleries - naked flesh, and breasts everywhere. Basically the artists celebrating the female form they love. The same with DOA.

Plus, to be fair to BMX XXX designers, I don't think there is anymore nudity than DOAVBX in-game. That all comes from FMV cutscenes. From what I've heard.

Yeah, but then who put the FMV in? The developers. Guilty as charged. ****e game, with sex bolted on. Strippers and BMX - no logical connection. Bikinis and volleyball - existing cultural connection.

Final Fantasy X-2 - the massively selling RPG. Bought because it spices up the sexually repressed character in the previous chapter.
Despite the game's quality on a playing experience level, do you think people who weren't inclined to such themes would rush out and buy it, despite it's merits.

I don't value the Final Fantasy series post FFVII, so I don't believe it has much of quality on a playing experience level, especially if FFX is anything to go by. I've also heard it's scores have been no better either, which hardly inspires me with confidence.

People will go out and buy FF because of it's namesake. I don't think sex is the main selling point of X2 either, not in the same way DOAVBX or BMX XXX is. Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

The Charlie's Angels style girl's are sexy and kick ass was the entire point of the game.

Games which over-rely on excessive sexual glorification.

Feel free to de-construct every single last sentence if you so wish. Ho-hum.

This is my opinion on the matter.

Looks like I have, but not 'cos I'm 'getting at you' but because I disagree that DOA: XBV peddles sex.

Glorification of the female form is one thing - it's everwhere too, peddling smut in games I completely frown upon, but it's not as prevalent as people seem to think.

[Treble]

I agree with Nikorasu to a certain degree. However, the whole 'it's a wider part of society than we care to admit, so it's bound to be in games' argument only reaches so far: games confer upon you a role and an objective. If the other characters in a game and/or the focus of a game is merely to treat women as sexual objects, then it is just that - objectification.

If a woman such as J-Lo or Holly Valance decides to present herself as a strong, empowered sexual presence, then she is wielding the power. If a bunch of male game designers show women to be little more than a bunch of walking tits 'n' ass, nobody is gratified in the process, and once again we men are seen as having a sad, limited, sexually repressed and immature hobby.

Ok, so it hasn't been overt up till very recently, but I believe there is a worrying move towards not only relegating women to the status of objects in a very patriarchal way, but also showing more and more of their flesh in the process. If there were more games to counterbalance this approach, with characters whose sexuality was expressed in their vocabulary and relationships rather than their cup size, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[Burai]

Can breasts enhance a game.

Possibly yes, but not so much breasts on their own.

Take a look at Space Channel 5 for example. Ulala has a sexy look and some really sexy moves and that really helps add character into the game.

But on the other hand you have the likes of Tomb Raider and BMX XXX where the sex is very much superficial and if it weren't for the fact that they have wide hips and tits bolted onto the front of each character, they might as well be men. Or Holly Valance.

Sex can indeed add something to a game. But sadly this industry seems happier to turn breasts into a marketing gimick rather than taking the lead of UGA and using sex as a tool to bring out the best in a game.

Now I must stop typing to avoid launching into a tirade against Holly Valance...

[Spatial]

Too....

many....

double entendre's....

in this....

thread......


Must resist urge......

to..... point them....

out......