Are JRPGs dying?

[abigsmurf]

Dramatic title but it's worthy of debate.

FFXIII almost universally dissapointed. People expected to be blown away only to be massively disappointed and even the most positive opinions tended around the 'I quite liked it'.

Aside from the lack of impact FFXIII made, there's been a big lack of high profile RPGs. You can count the number of good 'pure' (not ie action hybrids) JRPGs on the PSWii60 without being in danger of running out of fingers.

WRPGs on the otherhand have surged with Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1&2 being huge sellers. Lots of pundits and editors are saying that the West has taken over.

My view?

I think Japan has been slow to react to the PS360 and Wii situation. They were all waiting for a console to become dominant, only for them to discover that the dominant console (Wii) makes it incredibly hard for third party makers to drum up sales.

Whilst they were waiting on the market, they've been filling the time with cheap and cheerful DS and PSP RPGS.

Bioware on the otherhand have been working solidly, churning out 3 high quality RPGs this generation (plus an MMO) which has bested even Square-enix (who've released more but they've also dissapointed more). Take away Bioware though and the WRPG market itself is pretty grim, perhaps Fallout 3 being the most notable (even if it's now an FPS before it's an RPG).

I'm expecting some nice surprises E3 and TGS. FFXV will probably be teased if they want to release it on a non-dying console. NIS have promised to stop releasing PS2 quality games. Nintendo themselves will be pushing DQIX and we're finally going to start getting a steady stream of more niche JRPGs (that don't involve semi naked girls eating bananas).

I would also expect the 3DS and PSP2 to both be solid RPG platforms like their predecessors.

tldr: What's your view on JRPGs now and in the future and have WRPGs eclipsed them? Are RPGs actually dying as a whole and being integrated into other genres?

[Brad]

Yes, WRPGs have eclipsed JRPGs. However, I'm not a big fan of WRPGs so I'll continue top grab the odd decentish JRPG here and there. I think that AJRPGs (Action JRPGs!) are set to take over. Give me moar Demon's Souls.

[speedlolita]

Yes. I haven't enjoyed one since Skies of Arcadia.

[Flabio]

I think a large part of the reason for the stagnation (I wouldn't say dying at this point) is that they're not pushing the design boundaries of the genre at all.

Pick up any JRPG from this generation, and then one from each generation from the SNES onwards and you should easily be able to see that apart from the increase in the visuals and audio, the basic game designs haven't changed at all.

When Square did choose to be more radical with the design with 12 it went down quite poorly (especially in Japan). I'm sure I've seen someone from Square on record as saying 'well, we'll never do that again'.

Valkyria Chronicles shows that it's still possible to innovate in a genre (albiet the tactical RPG rather than the classic JRPG) without losing the essence of it, and I think it's this lack of risk taking thats hurting the JRPG the most at the moment.

I gave up on Eternal Sonata, because once you got past the nice art it there was less going on than in Star Ocean 2, two generations back.

And the problem isn't that people don't buy big spectacle, large narrative, gameplay light games. Heavy Rain sold extremely well.

Tough problem really. If they stray from the 'formula' then the games don't sell in Japan. But if they stay on formula, they don't really sell outside Japan (Final Fantasy excepted, which is still riding on the popularity of part 7, although that does seem to be waning now).

[speedlolita]

Ah yes, I recently got a PS3 and Valkyria Chronicles and it seems alright thus far. More an sRPG than my fav regular jRPG like FF though.

[Sane]

I have been playing Tales of Vesperia the last few weeks and I've been thinking the same thing to myself. It's a good game really, well crafted, however I've played this exact game dozens of times before.

Other JRPG's this generation have largely failed to impress me: Star Ocean, Last Remnant, Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, Infinite Undiscovery (dumbest name ever btw ) were all decent at best.

Maybe the standard JRPG template has simply been drained of everything it has to offer? The best JRPG's I've played this generation are those that tried new things: Resonance of Fate by focusing everything on a creative new battle system and Demon's Souls by going in a completely different direction altogether. The only truly great standard JRPG this generation for me has been Lost Odyssey.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I don't know but I think the market probably outgrow it. The JRPG series is struggling to adapt to new generation with fanstatic HD graphics. It probably be too expensive to raise their standard.

[Wools]

I think a large part of the reason for the stagnation (I wouldn't say dying at this point) is that they're not pushing the design boundaries of the genre at all.

Pick up any JRPG from this generation, and then one from each generation from the SNES onwards and you should easily be able to see that apart from the increase in the visuals and audio, the basic game designs haven't changed at all.

When Square did choose to be more radical with the design with 12 it went down quite poorly (especially in Japan). I'm sure I've seen someone from Square on record as saying 'well, we'll never do that again'.

Tough problem really. If they stray from the 'formula' then the games don't sell in Japan. But if they stay on formula, they don't really sell outside Japan (Final Fantasy excepted, which is still riding on the popularity of part 7, although that does seem to be waning now).

I think you're bang on with that opinion.

The Japanese Role Player has not died at all, the sales of the games in Japan prove otherwise. However they now appeal even more to the east and even less to the west.

Back in the 90's the JRPG was one of the very few genres to offer long play times, involving stories and unique settings and characters. As time has moved on, it feels like the developers want to as well. But the smaller sales of the games that attempted to break the mould, pushed the makers into recycling familiar stories, characters and game mechanics.

I adored Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI & VII but feel since the PS2 era, JRPG's have become more formulaic and dull with no game or series bucking the trend.

Mass Effect 2 and Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion prove how this generation can push stories, characters and settings. I still feel that Square Enix and other makers of JRPG's can make emotional and interesting videogames, but the self imposed boundaries they find themselves in are limiting what they can create.

[Profit]

'Dying' is not really the best way to best describe it. Japanese RPG makers are not ones for innovation. It's just the same SNES/PS1 mechanics with better graphics. Not just Square; but with e.g. Nippon Ichi, Gust etc. And they have little incentive to change.

All are primarily made to be profitable for the local market and just as western gamers keep buying FPS, the Japs keep buying RPGs.

[Baseley09]

The terrible Japanese she-men character designs aren't really helping their cause.

[nakamura]

There were plenty of high quality RPG's last gen. Skies of Arcadia, Baten Kaitos, Final Fantasy 12, Persona 3-4, Devil Summoner, Disgaea to name a few.
The genre certainly hasn't moved at all well with the technology. Things like random battles should be a thing of the past but turn based fighting still has its place.

[speedlolita]

The genre certainly hasn't moved at all well with the technology. Things like random battles should be a thing of the past but turn based fighting still has its place.

How else am I going to level?

[Flabio]

Simple stuff like only being able to save at save points, which they use to artificially drive the difficulty level up. Nothing more frustrating than losing hours of progress due to deliberately sparse savepoint placement. And on the modern consoles with their bigass memory cards there's no excuse for not allowing a 'save anywhere' option.

[fuse]

Whilst I don't think they're dying, I do have increasing complaints with them - my biggest of which being that they're trying too hard to move with the times and introduce crazy graphics/sound/blah and typically overlook the most critical parts in the process - a good battle system, interesting characters and story, and so on...

For me, Dragon Quest VIII was stone cold confirmation that you don't need to do anything new or re-invent the genre, you just need to take what you're doing, and do it well.

[EvilBoris]

I hope so, it should be adapt or die and JRPG's aren't changing.

You can play a game from the PS1 era then a current next gen title and not get any improvement apart from the visual fidelity. My biggest gripe with JRPG's is that they feel so clunky and awkward to control, play a modern 3rd person shooter or something like fable or mass effect then go and play Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy 13, the latter feel totally archaic, right down to being able to spin on the spot.

On top of that everything may as well be pre rendered for how much you can interact with the environments and the characters. We are living in an age of deformable environments and dynamically driven narrative and your JRPGs still have text prompts to say you've found some coins in a vase.