A thought on hard games

[dataDave]

Metroid Prime final boss on hard mode is chewing my bollocks as I type.

[Pikman]

DavidFallows Posted: Sat Sep 27, 5:40 pm

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Metroid Prime final boss on hard mode is chewing my bollocks as I type.

Metroid Prime on hard mode was fantastic, easily my most enjoyable Gamecube experience.

It was much more enjoyable than playing it on normal difficulty despite there being no surprises the second time round.

And you're right - the final boss is bloody hard (as were most bosses) and those bloody ghost pirates, the number of times those bastards wiped me out was unbelieveable.

A real work of art.

[dataDave]

... and those bloody ghost pirates, the number of times those bastards wiped me out was unbelieveable.

Damn straight - remember the trek from the top of Phazon Mines to the bottom? They really got on my nerves at that bit.

I love this game - if only Fusion had a hard mode.

[TommyG]

Sometimes I relish a hard game and actually enjoy having to restart/continue/try again and again to beat a section or a boss. As said above the satisfaction of success is superb and rewarding. But these days I find I have less and less time to sit and play a certain section or boss for hour upon hour until it?s beat. That?s why I?m more junk food gaming. Quick short blasts of adrenaline filled fun are where it?s at for me at the moment. I find really hard games these days more of a chore than a fun experience.

[Max M]

Sometimes I relish a hard game and actually enjoy having to restart/continue/try again and again to beat a section or a boss. As said above the satisfaction of success is superb and rewarding.

I agree. It's all about the feeling of acomplishment you get when you finally pass that objective or beat that boss...

Having said that, although I love challenging action games, one thing I've never enjoyed is really difficult puzzles, like some of the ones in the Resident Evil games. I end up just walking around trying to figure out what I have to do and just get very bored... At least with something like Ikaruga or F-Zero you know what you have to do, and it's always your fault if you can't get progress.

[nips]

I dunno, hard games can be good and bad. With refernece to Prime and the die/restart it's different for me.

I got to Phazon Mines, and like loads around here, I died - a lot - and then re-tried and eventually did that section. I was very relieved. I saved out of the mine and I am yet to pick up the game again.

It just pissed me off, and the satisfaction at the end was FAR out-weighed by the infuriation of playing the same bit of game 8 times before I completed it.

I suppose it is different for different people, and if you enjoy that then fair enough... I suppose the question for me is: Do I only like easy games, or is the Die/Restart gameplay present in Metroid Prime too backwards and infuriating for me?

I ask this becuase I love F Zero, and am more than happy to retry levels and cups over and over again until I get fast times/more kills etc... Yet the attraction of Metroid Prime elluded me.

[Moodmon]

At least with something like Ikaruga or F-Zero you know what you have to do, and it's always your fault if you can't get progress.

And, more to the point, you often get a little further each time. Unlike with puzzles where often you just end up staring at the telly for hours.

[Magnakai]

It just pissed me off, and the satisfaction at the end was FAR out-weighed by the infuriation of playing the same bit of game 8 times before I completed it.

I don't know...
Some of the bits in KotOR, namely the

swoop bikes races, EVEN THOUGH it was a minigame

just pissed me off, no end. After I did them, it really put me off the game. Stupid, no?
But then I was just having great difficulty doing one of the quest orders in VF4Evo, and I just kept going back again until I did it, and didn't mind at all.
*shrugs*

[nips]

But, I got REALLY stuck at the materia keeper in FFVII, and I just kept going back again, and again, and again until I did it. I was so happy once I had finally done it...

Perhaps because FFVII was just one battle, and Metroid was a 25 minute section I didn't mind so much, but over all, I think I may have put more time into FFVII...

I knew that I Was doing things better each time in FFVII though, and I was trying new techniques and new ideas etc, so I could feel a progression through the section. But with Metroid I felt I was just retracing my steps and making the same mistakes again and again. I felt no progression through my problem...

I think that it is important to acknowledge that the player is trying and reward them, no matter how small, so they feel a level of accomplishment, even if they find themselves back in the position they were 20 minutes ago. Then it is less demoralising and much more fulfilling.

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

I agree about the Phazon mines. 25 minutes of challenge without a restart point is sloppy design. It's relief more than satisfaction when you get out of that. You should keep going with the game, though. Pussy.

As for the topic: It's all design.
If a game is really easy (see: Celda) it just makes all the clever gameplay design worthless. There's no point in pressing A at the right time, no point in collecting heart pieces/bottles.
If a game is so frustratingly hard that it feels like luck whether you live or die, and the rewards are few, why bother playing?

[Max Zorin]

Personally I loved Phazon Mines on hard - I died many times on it a few months ago, but when I returned to it recently I coasted (relatively speaking) through on the second attempt.

I wasn't quite so thrilled with Omega Pirate - beat him yesterday but it involved quite a lot of luck, with him calling up an unusually high proportion of easily-dispatched Ice Pirates. To beat him with half my energy left after failing so many times previously shows it wasn't just a question of skill.

Meta Ridley, on the other hand: had a few cracks at him last night and it's entirely my fault he stopped my clock. I almost got the bastard, though, so here's hoping I crack it today..

On a side note, how hard did people find the last boss on FFX (I'm talking about the US version?) I can't even remember his name, it's been so long since I tried it. He wasted me effortlessly several times, and I'd barely broken sweat through most of the rest of the game.