'NTSC-UK Classics'

[JohnMcL7]

So, should a game considered a "classic" still remain better than the games that came after it?

For example, Dune II probably invented the modern RTS genre, but it hasn't aged that great and a number of later RTS games have outdone it in pretty much every department. Should it still be considered "classic" or would something more popular like StarCraft deserve the title? Or both?

My interpretation of the OP's definition is that's the game you could go back and enjoy as much as you did originally so Dune II wouldn't meet that requirement. I bought Command & Conquer the First Decade with the idea of playing through all the originals I'd wasted many hours on originally. However I struggled to get a few missions into the first C&C game as so many mechanics, even simple ones such as build queuing were missing so I gave up. Red Alert 2 and Generals are both still as addictive as when I first played them despite sinking many hours into them the first time so while earlier games in the series were perhaps more innovative, RA2 and Generals are the classics for me as I still play and enjoy them.

John

[Rossco]

Last three generations of classics are:

Metal Gear Solid (PS1)
Ico (PS2)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Xbox 360, PS3, PC)

All three of these games make me weak at the knees. Just thinking about them for a few seconds brings a smile to my face. The memories I have of playing through them, getting to know the characters, the environments, the puzzles, the stories, the soundtracks, the gorgeous visuals.

[Sam The Man]

Sonic The Hedgehog (MD)
Tomb Raider 1 (PS1,SAT,PC)

[Neon Ignition]

I'd be willing to include Half Life although for me Half-Life>Half Life 2 every single time

Panzer Dragoon Saga
Nights into Dreams
Guardian Heroes
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Super Mario World
Mario Kart 64
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Shadow of the Colossus
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Bioshock

There's probably a few others too but I can't think at the mo'. No-one will agree but scraping in I'd maybe consider...

Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker

Flawed but still massively fun, carefully designed and absolutely stunning.

[Guts]

My interpretation of the OP's definition is that's the game you could go back and enjoy as much as you did originally so Dune II wouldn't meet that requirement. I bought Command & Conquer the First Decade with the idea of playing through all the originals I'd wasted many hours on originally. However I struggled to get a few missions into the first C&C game as so many mechanics, even simple ones such as build queuing were missing so I gave up. Red Alert 2 and Generals are both still as addictive as when I first played them despite sinking many hours into them the first time so while earlier games in the series were perhaps more innovative, RA2 and Generals are the classics for me as I still play and enjoy them.

John

Indeed, I couldn't go back to the early RTS games either, I think you can't even select multiple units at the same time in Dune II for example.

So if "classics" should be considered games that have stood the test of time and are still fun to play (and in some cases, unbeaten in their genre) thanks to great gameplay I'd nominate:

-Tetris
-Super Mario Bros.
-Super Mario World
-Super Mario Kart
-Super Mario Galaxy
-Super Metroid
-The Legend of Zelda III: A Link to the Past
-The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
-Chrono Trigger
-GTA: Vice City (okay the shooting is sh*t by modern standards, but the other qualities make up for it)
-Doom
-Half-Life 2
-Halo: Combat Evolved
-StarCraft
-Fallout
-Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

I'm sure many other titles could also make the cut.

[nakamura]

Super Tennis. Set a benchmark for ball control that I don't think has been beaten. Still plays an amazing game today. For me, it is a 10 and a tota classic.

[InvisibleKid]

A few immediately spring to mind:
Shenmue (1+2)
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 3

[Wools]

Guts talked about whether a classic should be remembered as such, if it's aged badly or has been done better. I would argue if it's aged badly then it shouldn't be, nor should it be if other games have done it better in recent times. However, although games like Halo and Half Life 2 have moved the shooter on, they don't compare to something like Doom so iD's classic would qualify in my eyes.

My list would probably look something like this.

Age of Empires II
The 2D graphics pushed past the more basic original with every unit and building animated, whilst the new races and tactics expanded possibilities during matches.

Doom II: Hell on Earth
The original is already a basic but polished template, the sequel adds more puzzles, more fun, better level design and the double barrelled shotgun.

Outrun 2
The original will age better, but the sequel is more refined and remains outside of the push for realism, that will prematurely age realistic driving games.

Pac Man
One of the best Arcade classics and although I'm tempted to place Championship Edition DX in its places, the original wins out.

Resident Evil 2
The static backgrounds allow the game to outlive other 32bit titles of its age whilst the atmosphere and style of play remains just as unique as it always has.

Resident Evil 4
It cut all hooks with its predecessors, allowing them to retain their individuality, whilst creating a whole new genre just to itself. Like Mario 64, it felt like Capcom were rewriting the rule book as it went, making the best action game ever made.

Sonic the Hedgehog
One of the most wonderful to control 2D games ever made. The level design allowed free access around its beautifully constructed Zones and the ingenuity of the layouts combined speed allowed through them, is just as awe-inspiring today.

Super Mario 64
The first true 3D world combined with some of the first truly imaginative and world altering 3D puzzles. Galaxy 2 is just as inventive but not as fresh or groundbreaking.

Time Crisis
Striking out from the crowd, Namco introduced recoil to the light gun, a duck pedal to change the dynamic and combined it all with great set pieces, made all more hair raising with the presence of a ticking down clock. Time Crisis perfected the on rails shooter over a decade ago and has not been bettered since.

Tomb Raider
It was very much in the wake of Mario 64, but was so different, it was no less shocking. Like Resident Evil 2, the control scheme is unwieldy in this day and age, but the simple puzzles, hauntingly barren environments and focus on exploration is solely unique to Tomb Raider.

I'm surprised I haven't included more in the list, with favourites of mine like Ico & Zelda Ocarina of Time not making it, but in order to be regarded a classic; it has to be perfect with what it sets out to do with few rough edges. I feel this list reflects that criteria the best.

[dataDave]

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Final Fantasy VI are both retro titles I've played just recently that **** all over everything else released within their genres this past decade, do they count?

[spagmasterswift]

Are they on a par with ancient talismans, to which one cannot remain indifferent, and which helps one define oneself in relation - or even in opposition - to it? If so, then sure!

[merf]

for me what this thread is starting to prove is that terms like 'classic' are thrown about too often in relation to games, films, music etc - like the term 'world class' is used to describe some spotty herbert who's just scored 5 goals in his debut season.

there are of course classic titles but they are few and far between and not commonplace, doesn't matter how much people enjoyed them as an individual (which may make them a personal classic) in wider terms things like Shenmue, Panzer Dragoon, Outrun, Castlevania are not classics.

For my money titles that spring to mind are Super Mario World, the original Mario Kart, Super Mario 64, the first Gran Turismo, Tetris (the all time classic ?), Halo, Goldeneye, Super Streetfighter 2 - games that transcended a genre and in some ways whilst often imitated aren't actually bettered in terms of the innovation and leap forward they took.

Sure Halo 2-3 etc looked better but in my eyes they couldn't match the impact of the original, same with the GTs.

[dataDave]

I suppose Super Metroid transcends SotN, even though I think SotN is the better game.

FFVI however, it knocks the tits off of anything else like it I've probably ever played previously, not just this or last gen.

[Guts]

GoldenEye was mind-blowing when it came out and it could be my most played multiplayer game of all time, but it has aged badly and has been surpassed by many other titles in FPS genre, so by that definition I wouldn't call GoldenEye a "timeless classic".

FFVI (or Chrono Trigger) on the other hand hasn't been bettered by any later game in the series except for the graphical output obviously. Judging by the latest efforts of Square-Enix, it might never be.

[Grapple Convoy]

Super Mario 64
The first true 3D world combined with some of the first truly imaginative and world altering 3D puzzles.

A lot of people seem to have forgot how ground-breaking Super Mario 64 really was on its release in mid 1996. I know that other 3D platform games quickly arrived in its trail, but SM64 was the first of its type to be superbly designed, and not feel like a prototype game design.

(Incidentally, I don't think Super Mario 64 is very Super Mario Bros-like at all, drastically diverging from the SMB gameplay template. And I don't just mean because it is in 3D...)

[ShadowDancer]

Not to repeat what has been said (Apart from ICO)

Killer7 (GC v)
Viewtiful Joe (GC v)
Wind Waker (TLOZ)
ICO.