JRPGs (mainly PS2)

[topper]

Did you read the manual at all? It tells you how to avoid combat and there are tutorials on how to balance your party. It is pretty tricky to get to grips with for sure but it is the least JRPG like so I thought it might suit.

Ah! *blush* I haven't read a game manual for years as they all seem to have built in tutorials. But you're right, the FFXII manual does seem to have a lot of *useful* information. I'll have to read it properly tonight.

Topper: I'm beginning to think that, counter to what you state in the first post, you have been trolling all along. RPGs always take a while to get going plotwise and reveal the complexities of their battle systems, etc., if you're prepared to apply some intelligence. They never offer instant gratification. I think from your comments that you'd better give up on the genre altogether.

Oh come on, I'm not a prolific poster but I would have hoped to be given a little more credit. I'm just telling it like I see it. Why do RPG fans have to get all serious and defensive? What about my positive comments that I found it hard to switch FFX off! Still think I should give up on the genre? I don't mind applying "intelligence" to something that I consider interesting enough to spend the energy on.

FF X is very easy to get into, its enjoyable from the get go, like all RPG's it
gets better as it goes on but it is actualy one thats enjoyable from the start.

JRPG's are often alot easier to get into than Western RPG's, but the problem with Final Fantasy XII is that it is actualy more like a western RPG in the way it plays and as a result will be a bit of a slog for many people.

I agree on both counts. Slog indeed (although as I have said ^^^ somewhere I might revisit it in the future).

^ Yes I imagine you are right again. Although as FFX contains the most whiny, fey and slappable 'emo' characters in the entire FF franchise, something that Topper says he can't stand, then that might not appeal to him either. What do you think?

Interestingly, I find Tidus a lot more palatable than Vaan. Even though Tidus is a bit of an arrogant "dude", at least you want to help him. His city got destroyed and I just found out that a thousand years went by and he didn't have a clue.

Vaan has zero charisma, no reason to exist AFAIK, and *even worse* dress sense. Although obviously I only played each for a couple of hours, so I didn't get to meet many other characters and it's early days. I did meet Penolo who, so far is as dull as Vaan, so they should get on nicely.

Oh, another good thing about both games is that all the ladies have nice, well-defined baps, although I think they are a bit too obvious on the younger ones WTF etc...

[Golgo]

Actually I'm not much of an RPG fan and am hardly about to get 'defensive' over any of them (apart from Demon's Souls or Chrono Trigger, maybe). I was just stating that it is unreasonable to expect any RPG to 'click' instantly. And instantly - in RPG terms - means the first several hours. They just don't work that way. Anyway, thanks for your clarification. I wish you all luck in your search for the perfect JRPG.

[Mad Gear]

I've got a few big guns on the shelf to choose from:
Dark Cloud 2
Disgaea
Dragon Quest VIII
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy XII
Phantom Brave
Valkyrie Profile 2

My tuppence of what i've played from that list:-

Disgaea - One of the best SRPG's going. Great characters, decent story and can be rather funny in parts. It's a huge game and can be a bit too much if someone wanted to dip in occasionally. It can be a little overwhelming but you don't have to go completely hardcore and do all the item world stuff to enjoy or complete the game.

DQVIII - Possibly my favourite traditional JRPG ever and by far my favourite from the last generation. There's so much to do!! Fantastic main quest and great side stuff like the metal slime quest, Dragon slayer and the Pokemon like Monster Arena. The characters are totally likeable and i loved the translation/voice cast.

FFX - I finished this when it came out so my memories are a little hazy. I have to admit to being terribly disappointed by it initially, especially as FF9 was a huge favourite of mine. Some of it was down to my technical expectations. This was the first FF on the PS2 and i was expecting to be blown away by it's graphics which i was led to believe would be on par to the cut scene's that were fabulous in the PS1 era games. It got better as it went on but i never gelled with the characters and the game felt like a step-back from the previous game. Maybe as i was such a fan of 9 it clouded my judgement somewhat but to me it was just a solid follow-up rather than the glorious sequel i was expecting (definate shades of FFIII here).

FFXII - Hated, hated, hated when i started this. "Where is my Final Fantasy's Sqeenixxx!!!" i bellowed to the sky above, hand's tightened into a dual shock shaped claw. "Wtf is this real time Gambit b*ll*cks!!???" i cried exasperated as i scrawled Hiroyuki Ito's phone number into my arm with a special edition gunblade. But then something happened, the sky cleared and a single beam of light illuminated my contorted, snivelling face. It was my wife coming down from bed wondering wtf i was doing and when was i coming to bed.

I lay there, thinking of the terrible unintelligible story and unforgettable characters. A fevered dream haunted me, teasing me with images of Final Fantasy past, goading me until breaking point, almost....

I wasn't beaten though. I awoke the next day, fists clenched. I phoned in sick, poured myself some weak lemon drink, cracked my knuckles and settled into a game of chance. Will this game break my love of the series or will it shine new light and maybe just maybe straighten my now twisted mortal coil.

I frikkin' loved it. Yes it really wasn't Final Fantasy anymore, it was something different, something new. The Gambit system was genius, i felt like a complete badass, tearing guys up left, right and centre. The game had a fluidity like never before and the combat felt rhythmic, never a chore.

To summarize it's a fantastic RPG but not really a Final Fantasy game (and the story and characters are still a bit crap).

Phantom Brave - Not a huge fan tbh. It's certainly decent but not a patch on the Disgaea games. Never got round to finishing it.

Valkyrie Profile 2 - Started, never finished. I'm just not a fan of the Tri-Ace games.

I've never got round to playing DC2.

So if you want a traditional RPG i'd go with DQ8. Want something a bit different then give FFXII a go (but be prepared to give it some time to win you over).
If you want a SRPG then Disgaea is a great shout. Enjoy!

[Guts]

Vaan has zero charisma, no reason to exist AFAIK, and *even worse* dress sense. Although obviously I only played each for a couple of hours, so I didn't get to meet many other characters and it's early days. I did meet Penolo who, so far is as dull as Vaan, so they should get on nicely.

Well, to be honest Vaan is probably the worst main character in the series (rumours say that he was added as the main in last minute and it shows) and him and Penelo are easily the most suckiest characters in FFXII. Luckily you don't even have to use them after you get the other characters. It kinda sucked that you couldn't fit the rest of the characters in the party since I liked all the rest.

[rmoxon]

Both FF XII and FF XIII dont really have a main character, probabaly becuase they realised early on in development that all the characters they had created were rubbish so no one would want to play as any of them, nevermind a main one you always had to be.

The trouble is, it dosent matter if you dont have to play as Vann, hes still part of the story and so hes still there.

Hopfully the next one will have a proper main character who is actualy likeable enough for you to want to follow through the story.

[Guts]

Both FF XII and FF XIII dont really have a main character, probabaly becuase they realised early on in development that all the characters they had created were rubbish so no one would want to play as any of them, nevermind a main one you always had to be.

There was nothing wrong with Basch, Fran and Balthier and I thought Ashe was okay.

Tidus, Wakka and Yuna on the other hand sucked big time.

The trouble is, it dosent matter if you dont have to play as Vann, hes still part of the story and so hes still there.

True, but he only opens his mouth in the cut-scenes and then it's back to the shadows with him, which pleased me greatly.

[rmoxon]

To be honest, while Wakka is an idiot and Yuna is a wet blanket i actualy kinda liked Tidus, and really liked Auron and Lulu.

I didnt like any characters at all in Final Fantasy XII

When talking about characters though none of these games really compare to the older games which had great and well rounded casts.

I actualy think FF IX has a great cast, probabaly the last really good one in the series.

[Kongster]

Ashe was the main character, Baltier was funny. The story in FFXII did nothing for me but the mob hunts were bloody addictive.

[sj33]

FFXII had very forgettable characters, but the game itself underlined all too well that the JRPG genre hasn't moved forward at all in well under a decade. And while a fan of the genre (myself incluced) would be quite happy with that, they also must recognise that this will result in the genre becoming even more niche. FFXII gave players an amount of freedom that JRPG players never had before, and they didn't know what to do with it. I think FFXII is absolutely brilliant.

My favourite character in FFX was Rikku. She wasn't the deepest character, and didn't have some endlessly-twisting backstory, but damn I just enjoyed playing as her. Someone so lighthearted and go-lucky felt like a breath of fresh air at the time.

[rmoxon]

For some reason i forgot about Rikku

They tried to repeat her character with that annoying girl in FF XIII but failed miserabley.

To be honest I like the FF games becuase they are all very simular, the fact that the last two have been different wasmt a good thing for me at all. It felt like the equiviliant of EA releasing FIFA 12 this year and it actualy being a rugby game. It wasnt what I wanted.

As Ive stated I relaly like the Battle system in X, doubtful that it will ever happen now but I would really like another game that uses it, although it could do with being a bit harder than X was as its a very easy game.

[Guts]

When talking about characters though none of these games really compare to the older games which had great and well rounded casts.

I actualy think FF IX has a great cast, probabaly the last really good one in the series.

Well, that's one thing we can agree on then.

I too like the characters in IX, particularly Steiner and Vivi.

[Sam The Man]

Yeah FFIX had a brilliant cast of characters. Since then Final Fantasy and JRPG'S in general have gone down hill.