Grand Theft Auto V

[chopemon]

The PS5 version of FF7 is smaller than the PS4 version because they use new compression. I'm not defending Rockstar but these old men impotent rage threads about games really ruin my enjoyment of the site and that is especially true when you're making assumptions about laziness when you have a lack of understanding about technical details. I know having a pile on is great fun but at least understand what you're talking about first.

I am going to say it again, it is fine to be upset with Rockstar if they deliver a product that isn't up to scratch but keep in mind that this is an old version of their engine that worked on the PS3. There is a huge amount of legacy code and content that is difficult to insert new rendering techniques into. RDR2 and GTA6 will be on newer engines which had the luxury of having the space and time needed to dramatically overhaul rendering, gameplay, physics, animation, etc systems. GTAV doesn't have that luxury. It is a live service game which generates literally billions of dollars. The risk involved in rewriting huge portions of the engine to get 4K60 is huge. No matter how much money Rockstar have, the risk in doing that and needing to ensure it is rock solid and can work on previous gens and this gen is huge and no one would undertake it with an engine that is so old and filled with legacy systems. Add to that, they are doing this under covid conditions.

My point is, words like "lazy" and "lack of effort" are entirely misplaced, disrespectful and make this forum a worse place. Grumpy old men ranting about perceived laziness just makes all these threads horrendous to be in. It's fine to say that you wish the game was 4K60. I wish it was too. That would be great but I just think calling people lazy without fully grasping the reality of development isn't really acceptable or justified.

[fishbowlhead]

Their recent debacle with gta trilogy is the very definition of lazy and lack of effort.

As for gta5, if the engine is that bad now and holds it back then rebuild the game, they have the funds to do it, obviously this is more of a filler project, but even still I personally expect a lot from rockstar given their track record and legacy of standards.

[chopemon]

You are wilfully either not listening to what I am saying or missing the point.

The GTA Trilogy is not lazy or a lack of effort. It is a collection of mistakes that shouldn't have been released. There is a very significant difference between laziness and making mistakes. I would also say that Rockstar showed a large amount of contempt for their customers by releasing it but again, that has nothing to do with laziness. Putting them under the same umbrella is wrong, shows ignorance and does nothing but ruin conversation about it.

Of course GTAV is a filler project. It is the third release of the same game. No one is saying that it is the next big thing. It is a port with added features.

The bit you do not seem to grasp no matter how many times I say it is that rebuilding the engine for a port to new systems when GTA6 is on the way is pointless and a huge risk. If it was just a single player game then most of that risk would go away. It is a live service game played by millions of people that generates billions in revenue and works across two different generations of consoles. Rebuilding the engine when you are maintaining a live service game of that is is insanely risky. If it falls over on release or data becomes incompatible or a million other problems occur, you are talking about one of the biggest money making entertainment properties of all time being unplayable. The player base will go berserk and so will the management and shareholders. You risk all sorts of lawsuits from shareholders if something like that happens. Also, the amount of man power needed for that is massive and most of that manpower is hopefully working these technical issues out on GTA6.

Again, if you are unhappy with the product or Rockstar, have the biggest strop you want but at least do everyone on here the favour of understanding the situation and become informed before you fill your nappy and make the forum a worse place to hang out in.

[QualityChimp]

I couldn't tell you about framerates or whatnot on the new version, but I can tell you that if you've not played it in the last 3 generations, GTAV is brilliant.

If you have 3 other mates, there are a bunch of co-op missions to do that are an absolute blast within GTA Online.
My friends and I had so much fun playing this during lockdown and it was a time to laugh in a pretty bleak period.

[chopemon]

I couldn't tell you about framerates or whatnot on the new version, but I can tell you that if you've not played it in the last 3 generations, GTAV is brilliant.

If you have 3 other mates, there are a bunch of co-op missions to do that are an absolute blast within GTA Online.
My friends and I had so much fun playing this during lockdown and it was a time to laugh in a pretty bleak period.

Dude, it is so good. Snowball fights on top of the mountain. Being part of a spec ops team hunting werewolves. Stealing fighter jets from an aircraft carrier while Danger Zone plays. Hanging out in secret bunkers. Setting up ambushes to hijack military convoys. So many amazing things to do in Online game. Setup a private game and have the greatest time.

[Neon Ignition]

Yeah... but, but... it's 4K30fps snowball fights innit?

[Cassius_Smoke]

Not to stir the pot, but when did anyone say or use the word lazy?

I highlighted that the PS5 and PS4 version are the same size. Maybe the PS5 version is full to the brim with 4K textures making it bigger. Who knows.

[QualityChimp]

We got proper addicted for a while. Logging in pretty much daily to do a bit more, however it was our sessions together that were so great. Literally, the first mission - the first mission - we had to drive somewhere together and the driver accidentally drove into the sea. We were crying.

Loads of really creative missions or ones straight out of an action film.

I definitely did the Cayo Perico run too many times on my own for the cash, though! Total burnout!

[monel]

I've never played any of the games except maybe seen the first on a PC??

The co op you mention, is it only teams? What about less players, can you do that? Private only.

Also have many people been moaning in this thread? I only scanned it briefly but have you got another tab open or have I missed something?

[chopemon]

Not to stir the pot, but when did anyone say or use the word lazy?

I highlighted that the PS5 and PS4 version are the same size. Maybe the PS5 version is full to the brim with 4K textures making it bigger. Who knows.

Neon Ignition said: "4K30fps pretty much hard locks that this is another outright lazy zero effort port from Rockstar"

fishbowlhead said: "£20 maybe if it actually had some effort put into it."

This is what I'm reacting to. Nothing about this game is lazy. Calling it lazy or saying no effort has been put in is the kind of sensationalist language used by 19 year old idiots on Youtube making a profit from whipping up drama. Lazy implies intention. What actually happens is that all games a product of an equation involving time, budget, people power and market reality. Laziness is not a factor. It is a childish use of language and ignorant of what the actual situation is. All these threads where people lash out calling things lazy or shill products creates a very negative atmosphere in the forum and I mostly avoid threads that certain people have posted in because I know the discussion is just going to be uninformed childish rage about things that really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. BD used to be better than this.

I specifically mentioned the size thing because (not saying this is you just to be clear) I have hand wringing from people online with other games that a next gen version not increasing in size means that there has been no extra work put into it. People look for anything to latch on to for them to direct their rage at without realising that game sizes mean nothing due to different compression techniques or reorganising of data during the build process. Again, not saying that was your intention though, sorry if it came across that way.

[gunrock]

[MENTION=3985]chopemon[/MENTION]: I think you're arguing over semantics here. No-one doubts that the developers working on the GTA Trilogy worked hard on it and were probably forced onto releasing it as it was.

I am a software developer and a long time ago, I was a games programmer, so I do have understanding of the complexities of software development and supporting backwards compatibility and added cross platform concerns. However using the word "lazy" is subjectively justified, because it is being applied to Rockstar, the entity, not the developers.

Rockstar have a lot of money in the bank and lots of talented developers. They could subjectively, add a 4k60 mode to GTA V PC or PS5 versions, if they deemed that to be important, which they don't, for a lot of the reasons you specify. Not least, it adds lots of risk for little return and takes resources from new projects, like GTA 6, as you noted.

You might not agree with the word, but this is a forum for discussion and opinion, ergo, it's justified when talking about Rockstar management or collectively.

Edit: I think it's a knee-jerk reaction from folks who want something new. We see the same thing with Nintendo re-hashes, too.

[chopemon]

I have to disagree with you because I don't think the term is at all justified in this situation and I am not focusing on just the devs.

If it was truly lazy, then it wouldn't have had any improvements made. It has new tech features in and while they may not live up to what people want, there is no laziness involved. There is no subjectivity here. You said yourself that they weighed the options and decided against it. An objective decision was made. That means that the Rockstar management are not lazy either. They have had to make a decision based on staffing, market factors, shareholders etc etc etc. That isn't laziness and you cannot interpret things like that as laziness just because you're having a tantrum. Lazy devs has become such a loaded and toxic term that it can't just be thrown out casually.

Again, I am not defending Rockstar I just wish this forum could have better discussions without the same handful of people ruining threads with their childish whining. There is nothing subjective here. If someone thinks that "In my opinion the devs and/or management are lazy" and spouts that rubbish in a discussion, they need to get themselves educated and understand what they are talking about if they want to have a proper discussion. If I've made a mistake and this isn't the place for discussion and we're just throwing out meaningless hot takes fuelled by ignorance and bratty vitriol then fine, I'll happily walk away. But I thought this forum was better than this and threads like this push me away from using the forum. I'm not looking to establish rules or whatever for the quality of discussion I just want this place to be nicer with more informed discussion and less ignorant vitriol (yes I am aware of the irony after some of the language I've used).

[Cassius_Smoke]

I think this feeling of 'laziness' is driven from the fact we have seen remakes and remasters done better (based on what we have seen so far) and expectations are heightened. GTA5 is the best selling entertainment media on the planet. Plus we have seen Demon souls, using the same code and timings, pulling out an incredible remake. Rockstar COULD have done something similar, if they had the inclination...previous players be damned. They haven't, they've done a 'simpler' remaster instead.
If you then throw in the disappointing gta3 remaster I can see why people feel this way.

[Neon Ignition]

I mean, I see the point and any comment I've made about this GTAV rererelease isn't a reflection of all ports, remasters, enhanced games and their devs and companies at all. There are obviously a host of behind the scenes factors that tie into how these projects are decided upon, developed, managed and released.

But... the idea that it doesn't happen in some instances that a company thinks it can do a minimal amount of costs project that is assured to make $$$$ rather than pour more money into a more thorough project? I'm not willing to rule that out and particularly for a company like Rockstar who we know makes more money than God out of this game and is largely making the release to continue its profit making via GTAOnline.

It's definitely all personal POV but I lean on the side that GTA Trilogy tipped their hand accidentally in terms of where their approach lies and I don't say that as someone who think any blame lies at all with the devs of that trilogy or had much of a personal issue playing the trilogy either. It wouldn't shock me if we later had it confirmed this port was intended to be full price but some damage control has been implemented.

I don't think lazy is a barrable word though. Rockstar had options, they might well have weighed them up but personally I'll hold on this one that they chose the easy, cheaper and quick to profit route which is a route I'd describe as lazy. So, till the self billed Enchanced and Expanded release shows more clearly otherwise I'll hold on this one

[teddymeow]

I wasn't going to buy the PS5 version but I will if the loading times for character switching are nigh-on instantaneous!!