Has the Xbox/GC outsold the the DC yet?

[Razz]

Or even the Sega Saturn?

The two sega machines that were considered as "flops", taking sega out of the hardware business.

So have they?

[Max M]

Yep, only just.

[chevkoch]

Interesting question.

Yep, only just.

Do you have some figures to back that up, Max M?

It would really be interesting to know, Razz. As far as software goes, I remember NCSX doing a top 20 list of bestselling games last year, and they concluded:

Our top 20 list is primarily made up of Dreamcast and Saturn games, which are played on Sega consoles.

Here's the full list as well as a note on how popular they saw Sega stuff being received by their customers in comparison to games for systems of competitors:

http://www.ncsx.net/www/2002/ncs090902/ncs0909w.htm

[Razz]

I asked this, but I already knew the answer.

No, it hasn't.

So which brings me to another question:

Shouldn't the Xbox/GC be considered as flops?

Especially when Microsoft have spent far more on Xbox already than Sega lost on the DC.

Very interesting.

[Max M]

They have outsold it, or they're at the same position. As of January 2001 the Dreamcast had sold around 6 million units worldwide Source and a few months after that it was discontinued, so I imagine it sold around 8 - 10 million in total. Considering many of those sales came when they were basically giving it away (After they'd halted production) it's not exactly a fair comparison anyway.

Some people consider GameCube and Xbox flops compared to the PS2 anyway...

[SharkAttack]

I can never consider the Gamecube as a flop considering it makes a profit. How can a console making a profit be classed as a flop?

And before people bring up certain news reports - Not making as much profit as expected is still not making a loss.

[Mr Spew]

I can never consider the Gamecube as a flop considering it makes a profit. How can a console making a profit be classed as a flop?

And before people bring up certain news reports - Not making as much profit as expected is still not making a loss.

If hardly any people buy a product, yet the company who have sold that product made a profit on that one item, then it can still be regarded as a flop, as hardly anyone has bought it.

So that's how.

[nips]

Well, the DC has been discontinued, and we're looking at another few year or so of the GC/XB, and the environment is much more competative - more rivalry... and like what was said, the GC is making Nintendo money, unlike the DC for Sega, so really... I don't see why they should be called flops... presently anyway!

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

If hardly any people buy a product, yet the company who have sold that product made a profit on that one item, then it can still be regarded as a flop, as hardly anyone has bought it.

So that's how.

I guess. Or if it sold well below expectations. The Gamecube has done both those things.

That's against two serious competitors though. I think both Microsoft and Nintendo had unrealistic expectations of what their consoles were going to sell in the current marketlace.

I'm certain the GC has outsold the DC by now though or at least come very, very close. So Razz doesn't have a point. As usual.

[Brats]

You can't judge a console by its sales when the thing is still being sold . Both consoles have another two years of life in them.

By this logic, on the first day the PS2 was first released it was also a flop because it hadn't sold as many as the Saturn did in five years .

[chevkoch]

"Flop": perhaps we need a standard of definition here.

Comparing sales doesn't often bring a lot of meaning easily, as there are many influencing factors (e.g. different launch dates) to it. So if one machine just hasn't sold as well as another that would'nt account it as a marketplace failure in my book. If sales are as low as XBOX's in Japan, well, it certainly has the aura of desaster. But that's one market, and I think there need to be graver terms met to make Microsoft's console a "flop".

The Dreamcast has too big a fan following still to make it a system that anyone should attempt to attach to it a "totally ignored by the marketplace" label. It entailed a heavy commercial setback for Sega, but looking at the clever hardware and overall quality of the games - a flop?

It might be a definition that finds more applause by a hardcore audience, but I believe that here a "flop" should mean a failure of a console on all levels: hardware architecture, stream of quality titles, how well it's received by gamers and sales too, to name a couple.

[rjpageuk]

Indeed chevkoch.

Perfect example of this:

The SNES sold considerably less units than the NES.

Did that make it a flop?

[Smeghead]

I think the point Razz was making is that both these console are now at the same age as the DC was when it stopped bein manufactured if not slightly older in some territories.

[rgraves]

There is a great editorial touching on this over at PGC (and the sources stated are links as well if you want to check the facts):

http://www.planetgamecube.com/editorials.cfm?action=profile&id=124

The relevent section is this:

Let?s do a little comparison. GameCube has been out for almost two years in Japan and North America. It has currently sold well over ten million units worldwide. (Source: Yahoo News) Nintendo just posted its first-ever quarterly net loss since going public decades ago, but with boosted GameCube sales and the release of Mario Kart: Double Dash, turning a profit for the next quarter shouldn?t be a problem. Now look at where Dreamcast was two years after its launch. Dead. Completely discontinued. Sega had posted net losses for four years in a row; they were in debt before the system?s release and only dug in deeper as the world failed to embrace Dreamcast. The system sold just eight million units in its entire lifetime, one quarter of which wasn?t sold until after production stopped forever and prices were slashed to clear inventory. (Source: USA Today, IGNDC) Going into its third holiday season, the Dreamcast price was dropped to $50 in the U.S.; Sega openly admitted that the move was designed to clear out all remaining stock and get Dreamcast systems off the shelves completely.

So there you go Razz, you obviously didn't know the answer as the GC has already sold more than the DC ever did.

[chevkoch]

Thanks rgraves for the info.

I only found this July news from gameinfowire.com stating that Xbox had sold more than 9.4 million systems worldwide until then. So if we need a resolution, that's probably it: GC and Xbox have each sold more consoles now than the Dreamcast ever did.