Gaming and Sexism

[Neon Ignition]

CVG is having an interesting little discussion piece on this subject (though natually the users struggle to properly discuss the issues involved) where the role of women within games is looked at in light of the recent 'Feminist Whore' achievement leak in Dead Island.

We've reached a point this generation and last where games are capable of recieving strong critical praise for their ability to portray great artistic direction and weighty story and mood such as in titles like Shadow of the Colossus and Heavy Rain. All too often however women are reduced to bland characterisations who are there to either be rescued as defenseless damsels or as objects to stared at.

Objectification towards women is nothing that isn't heavily prevailent throughout all media types however gaming to date has given very little in the way of serious alternatives. Whereas the modelling industry has its share of figureheads who are images of elegance and the TV and film industries feature characters and actresses who are respected character actors and personalities with weight and a strong dramatic edge the gaming industry still revolves around the idea that it's leading 'strong' female characters must still be overly sexualised. Lara Croft is only just losing her super sized chest (swapping them very cheeky grunting), various fantasy titles have female leads essentially in their underwear and the strong dominant fighters in games such as Soul Calibur have to have their nipples rendered these days.

How big of an issue do you feel this is in the industry? Harmless fun and marketing or a serious problem in an industry that should know better?

[abigsmurf]

Meh, there are few AAA games where the male leads aren't built like greek demi-gods or have otherwise rugged good looks too.

Until women start buying and playing these types of games, they'll always be geared towards men, why risk alienating some of your millions of male buyers for the sake of increasing your female ownership from 100,000 to 130,000.

When you have games geared towards women, the sexism just swings the other way. There's your Zumba fitness which is geared 95% towards women (or at best, a boyfriend buying it so they can play together) with an idealised toned woman on the cover (that most people who buy the game have no hope of acheiving). No doubt over time with games aimed at women there'll be games with less flesh and more bones like you see in fashion magazines.

Meanwhile in Japan you've the Otome games geared at women, with effiminate, perfectly scultped male cliches abandoning their regular, vaguely homoerotic lives in order to fawn over the 'plain' female character you play.

But meh, the second you try to be even handed in your portrayal of the sexes, you start to lose the soul of the story. How many Hollywood films have we seen where execs go out of their way to give the princess or female co-star 'attitude' and prove that she's "an equal match for any man" despite never having fought against anyone in her life and being up against people who are experienced fighters. Usually with posters where the male and female stars are leaning against each other back to back with the female star having a cocky grin with a raised eyebrow.

There's no real need to put a huge amount of effort in anyway. Ultimately it's the game's nature that determines which sex will buy it most, not how strong/realistic the characters of a particular sex are. Look at Professor Layton and it's Victorian-era chivarly and damsel in distress females, that would have some feminists foaming at the mouth yet the series is very popular with women and the series would lose a lot of its charm if there was less of a focus on Layton being 'a perfect gentleman'.

[Flabio]

AAA Core gaming still has a very long way to go here, but the wider realm where you factor in casual stuff, social games etc... are far better at it.

[Fader209]

Until women start buying and playing these types of games, they'll always be geared towards men, why risk alienating some of your millions of male buyers for the sake of increasing your female ownership from 100,000 to 130,000.

When you have games geared towards women, the sexism just swings the other way. There's your Zumba fitness which is geared 95% towards women (or at best, a boyfriend buying it so they can play together) with an idealised toned woman on the cover (that most people who buy the game have no hope of acheiving). No doubt over time with games aimed at women there'll be games with less flesh and more bones like you see in fashion magazines.

A little bit sexist there assuming women don't play hardcore games and only stuff like Zumba!
My girlfriend would give you a right slap for that
And just to put a spin on the perspective here, she likes Bulletstorm, GTA, Bioshock and Dead Space which by your reckoning would be geared towards the male market.

[abigsmurf]

It's perhaps sexist to assume a woman doesn't play them but it's hard to argue that women as a whole tend not to play them. If the percentage of copies of God of War 3 played by a woman was above 10%, I'd be suprised.

[Charlie]

I don't see it as a problem, merely a reflection of the immaturity of games. Unlike other art forms at their best, games aren't about reflecting reality or asking probing questions about ourselves, so it's no big deal.

[Dezm0nd]

Girls do emotion.

[Lyris]

Meh, there are few AAA games where the male leads aren't built like greek demi-gods or have otherwise rugged good looks too.

^ This.

Sounds like yet another feminist-centric discussion which only looks at one side of gender stereotyping.

[Phar]

I don't know what all the complaining is about, GTA IV gave the ladies this.

[importaku]

Tits sell games, simple as. When men stop liking tits is the day games makers stop adding them.

[Golgo]

Agree with abigsmurf. It cuts both ways. The male characters are equally stereotypical. And I'm glad they are. Insofar as gaming offers escapism, I'd prefer not to have an avatar that resembles myself too closely.

But the feminist whore thing has been allowed to blow up into a nonsense, particularly as some ignoramuses are confusing it with sexism, misogyny and even (wtf?!) racism. Feminism has nothing to do with these things. It is a set of intellectual beliefs/arguments that can be adhered to - and indeed disagreed with - by men or women. I'm sympathetic, have read as far back on it as Mary Wollstonecraft, and have whored around in my glory days. Therefore I am a (male) feminist whore.

[Golgo]

Tits sell games, simple as. When men stop liking tits is the day games makers stop adding them.

Niche markets like hentai aside, I don't agree with this. How many of the blockbusters projected for last qtr of this year are being sold on the promise of tits? Answer: none.

['Press Start']

Niche markets like hentai aside, I don't agree with this. How many of the blockbusters projected for last qtr of this year are being sold on the promise of tits? Answer: none.

I agree. I find it weird how animated tits can be a selling point to anyone older then 16! Just remember children when you see those boobies or weirdly perverted up skirts a man probably drew it!

By a man for a man!

[Neon Ignition]

I love that there's loads of kids who'll perv over Bridget in Guilty Gear completely missing that 's'he's hiding a secret... weapon. Some of the fan pics are brilliant at how people miss the point

[Sketcz]

How big of an issue do you feel this is in the industry?

There are far worse issues plaguing the industry, like its cyclical boom-bust nature, bribery and corruption, a lacklustre press element and rubbish magazines (like EDGE), the excessive control of Publishers, region locking, DRM, DLC, rising costs, loss of IP, the obsession with metacritic, excessive copyright restrictions which are destroying gaming's heritage and history, licensing bull**** which prevents people from accessing certain games, region locking (again), and about a million other things only devs would perhaps know about, which are worse than some silly morality argument over whether some games are sexist or not. There are plenty which aren't, and to me this is a bit of a non-issue.

tl;dr
I don't really care because I'm much more worried about other stuff. Like when my subscription to

->Open Spoiler<-

WhippedAss

is going to run out*


* that's a joke