Waiting for conclusion and coherence

[toythatkills]

Nope. I want to buy some to thank them, and I will do, if my financial situation ever looks slightly brighter than it does at the moment. And yes, seriously, even 69p is a lot. I practically had to save up to get Hypership

For now I console myself with the fact that I've probably been the direct cause for at least one person in the world buying Tower Bux. Someone. Somewhere.

[koopatroopa90]

When I need to I'll buy ?2.99 worth I think, but for the time being I don't want to as I'd just be wasting them (I'm only on floor 34) - I want to remember what they purchased in the game! Write them a nice review or something on the app store for the moment

But yeah, erm, my point was that we nice gamer types who actually think of the people that made the game will perhaps stump up some cash for free/good value games, but the thought probably wouldn't even cross the average persons mind - particularly all the kids. It would be better just to price DLC fairly so it represents good value for money, that way you will hopefully please those that do buy it and sell a good amount.

In reality all the big publishers should have complex economics behind the prices they set to achieve their aims which is most likely profit maximisation.

[Matt]

It's a lovely sentiment but history suggests you're in denial. CoD has an obscene amount of brand loyalty, and Acti can release maps whenever they want for whatever price they want. Gamers are fickle. Most of them don't care about what you care about (though it'd be a much better place if they did)

CoD is a very different proposition to anything else. Fanatical loyalty, they could pretty much release a CoD exclusive console and sell 25million units.

I'm hopeful a dev somewhere will give it a try. In some ways, EA have tried with both Burnout Paradise and Bad Company 2 - I've no problems with the Online Pass concept, as long as it's included in the regular game price. BC2 suffered initially as the "free maps" were just re-moded maps, but they added some quality stuff later as well.

I appreciate making maps costs money, but it needn't be that much. You need not have new assets for every map. If you already have a pile of assets and textures, you can make them seem fresh with some creative lighting. Alternatively, get the community involved, kind of like Make Something Unreal contests; release the mapmaking tools for the PC version, and have the community submit their maps. Their peers give you free playtesting and a quick review score, then pick a monthly winner, give them a $500 prize and the plaudit of a map released on multiple platforms. Everyone's a winner. The devs / publishers pay very little, the creative PC community gets a kick, and the successful mappers open a door or two into the industry.

That idea took me all of a minute to formulate. What a shame the industry is ultimately driven by money instead of love of games

[Flabio]

I think they lost money on the Burnout Paradise approach actually.

It's easy to say 'use less assets, make it cheaper', but you still can't ever get past the fact you have to pay the salary of the people working on it and pay the rent, electric bills etc... You can't ever get costs below your basic running costs.

And saying that it's a shame it's driven by money is silly. EVERY industry is to a certain degree. Noone is going to design and build the PS3 and then say 'hey, we just did it for the love of it'.

[nakamura]

A choice quote but a question worth asking, generally.
When exactly is the best time to bring out DLC?
Way I am seeing this, its damned if you do and damned if you don't. Bring it out weeks within release you end up looking like you have been keeping it from the disc, then again release it 6 months later and players may have just moved onto another game and not bother.

Maybe it's just me but I think gaming has become too disposable in recent times. In the past, I would buy a game and if I really enjoyed it I would keep it to play again. Now it seems even games people love get traded weeks after launch yet things like DVD stay in the collection.

Perhaps if more gamers would be inclinded to keep their purchases the DLC launched 6 months after would be excellent.
That said games are expensive and selling them makes financial sense.

[Matt]

I think they lost money on the Burnout Paradise approach actually.

It's easy to say 'use less assets, make it cheaper', but you still can't ever get past the fact you have to pay the salary of the people working on it and pay the rent, electric bills etc... You can't ever get costs below your basic running costs.

And saying that it's a shame it's driven by money is silly. EVERY industry is to a certain degree. Noone is going to design and build the PS3 and then say 'hey, we just did it for the love of it'.

They lost money? That's a shame. I appreciated what they done, and I know many friends who picked it up late in the day in part because many others we knew were still messing around with it online.

And it's silly to say it's a shame an industry founded by creatives and artists is now so money driven? Did you get in it for the money? Hopefully not. I believe it is possible for the game industry to achieve a comfortable middle ground between Profit and Altruism. It's only this gen the consumer has become used to paying for absolutely every thing. In the Good Old Days, devs used to love giving us free ****. id and Epic were reknowned for this. The issue these days is more the delivery systems (Live and PSN) and their incessant need to charge for everything (ahem Live).

I say it's silly to believe that the monetising systems we are currently being forced to accept are the only way a games company can survive.

[Flabio]

Founded by artists? Really?

[endo]

It's only this gen the consumer has become used to paying for absolutely every thing. In the Good Old Days, devs used to love giving us free ****. id and Epic were reknowned for this. The issue these days is more the delivery systems (Live and PSN) and their incessant need to charge for everything (ahem Live)

Not sure I agree there either- I don't remember getting loads of freebies when I had a Spectrum (obviously I'm not counting copied stuff or cover-mounted tapes here). Nor when I had a Megadrive, SFC etc.

The videogames industry has been about money since day one. Just think of all the quarter-guzzling coin-ops of the late 70s/early 80s.
As Flabio says too, was the industry really founded by artists? I don't think the very early outfits in the industry set out to make art. They set out to provide entertainment- entertainment that would make loads of money.

[Matt]

Obviously I was talking of freebies when there was a way to deliver such content - in other words, the internet. And yes, it's only been on the PC format, as that's open with no controlling force dictating policy.

Founded by artists? I think you may be taking the word Artist too literally. I consider anyone creative to be an Artist.

This thread is simply bacing up my belief that Gamers are more Consumers these days.

[endo]

And it's silly to say it's a shame an industry founded by creatives and artists is now so money driven?

Fair enough if you consider anyone creative an artist, but even years ago those same creative types weren't driven solely by artistic endeavor- money was a major factor. This is a business and it always has been.

This thread is simply bacing up my belief that Gamers are more Consumers these days

And so they've always been. Pacman, Space Invaders, the bazillions of 2600s and games Atari sold yonks ago. This wasn't consumerism?

[Matt]

I like to think there's more to life than making and spending money. I'm idealistic and an eternal optimist

You should read a little about the guys creating those early games. They were driven, and done it out of love, out of passion, out of creativity.

[JSR]

Well, those kinds of games were actually possible to create almost singlehandedly. I'd like to see something like Skyrim being created by a small group of persons, on their spare time, in a basement. Not possible.

What you're talking about is still going on, even more so than it did before. There are tons of free games on the net, more than one could ever hope to play through. But the games that actually cost money and is delivered in a box, those are such colossal creatures that they are not comparable to games from back in the day. If anyone expects or feels entitled to getting anything like those for free, they are simply naive.

[Matt]

Where am I saying games should be free? I'm simply saying that giving people maps for free would help keep communities together and keep people playing the games. This place sometimes

[endo]

I like to think there's more to life than making and spending money. I'm idealistic and an eternal optimist

I agree with you there. I'm not saying that when all games are made the sole factor beind their creation is how much money they might make. Of course there's passion and craft in games (well, most of them). But even right at the beginning, games were a commercial enterprise. Sure, the bloke who designed Space Invaders may have had all sorts of noble artistic intentions for his game, but he wasn't a one-man band doing it purely for the love of it- he designed the game for the corporation he worked for.

I think I get what you're saying, and those of us who do remember gaming in the early 80s might look back more fondly on those times - there certainly seems to have been a certain 'innocence' back then which has been lost - but even all those bedroom Speccy coders had one eye on the money.

I suppose where you're an optimist, I'm a cynic. C'est la vie.

[BeyondJumpFish]

I think some DLC is good, and some bad. For the likes of Elder scrolls, fallout and Burnout, the DLC is fine. They have approached it with a "if you want more of this stuff, here are some new missions, cars, tracks etc...". Its not part of the original game, it just lets those who enjoyed the game keep playing more.
For those games that miss off chapters for you to get later, well it just sticks of meeting room whiteboard thinking. "Here is the full game...but these sections we will make DLC, just to drag in money".