Some sad Stats - sales from my shop

[Brats]

Sorry Brats, After playing it myself it is complete "****ing ****e".

Edit- Just read camps post....Its a shame this supposed most improved game still dosn't replicate a game of football well imho.

I'd argue that WE doesn't replicate football very well either. It replicates what you see on the TV, but it doesn't replicate what it's like to actually play football.

I can see why people might not like Fifa 2004, but I resolutely fail to see how one could describe the game as "****ing ****e". That describes a game as bad as Fifa 97 on the N64 or World Cup Carnival which Fifa 2004 is totally removed from. I've even heard that several PES heads have been won over by Fifa 2004.

I get the feeling that some people play Fifa for five seconds looking for the negative and then walk away muttering "See, I told you it was still ****e". Either that or people have two frames of reference for all games, great or ****e, which you often see on games forums. Such people should read this.

[John Beaulieu]

Kron - that still the pc version you have played?

don't want to hijack the thread but this needs to be said....

EA and Fifa has been getting a lot of stick for years - first of all it gets slagged off for being an annually released franchise, whereas **** all is said about the winning eleven franchise getting 2-3 yearly updates in japan alone.

next we look at the production side of things - Fifa is the benchmark for the sporting genre (not just footie) when it comes to getting all the names right, appearances (strips,locales and player appearences) - then throw in the menu systems (which are easy to navigate), the licensed music (big plus imo) - sorry but on this side of things Fifa beats WE hands down.

Graphically and sonically Fifa wins hands down - commentary is top notch (getting up there with the american footie games for best of sporting genre). its not all good though - there is still that 'pause' in animation when you receive the ball which has been prevalent in the fifa franchise since fifa97 (but its something which players of the fifa franchise have become accustomed to and take into account with their tactics)

now we go onto the main aspect - the gameplay. Fifa is not as good as WE in the gameplay department - i can't see anyone claiming it is. But it is getting closer year by year and if both franchises continue to improve in the same manner which they have done in the past 2 years then this gap will get even smaller in the next installment (if fifa doesn't catch up altogether). Fifa does have some innovative aspects which konami should take note of - mainly the freekick situation which pisses on WE's from a great height

on Xbox Fifa 2004 is the best footie game available - if you are a sole xbox owner and want a decent footie game which plays well then they shouldn't hesitate to purchase it - PS2 and GC owners can both pick up installments of the WE/PES franchise but that doesn't mean they should give Fifa a miss - if they have room in their gaming libraries for more than one footie title then fifa 2004 should be purchased

camps

[Kron]

Kron - that still the pc version you have played?

No unfortunately I've managed to play the Xbox version now as well.

The whole "when it comes to getting the names, likenesses right" etc is entirely down to the fact that they have purchased the license, If they didn't have this then the game wouldn't be bought by the kind of consumers who go for the gloss.

There is a reason people say "**** all" about the updates to Winning Eleven its mainly because the people who buy them understand that at a core the game is technically sound and gameplay wise its unrivalled.

Personally I could care less about the licensed music thats just one aspect that appeals outside the aspect of the game imo, Just put on a CD in the background if you want to listen to some music.

And I thought the freekicks in Fifa are incredibly limited and give little scope for non direct play. Plus the ball still has no weight and no momentum.

For the budget they have this game should be ALOT more than it is (Many of the fundementals are completely wrong), I utterly hate the way the game plays, In its current guise it could never be a considered purchase... for me anyway.

I can't help feeling the character models for this years update are out of scale as well, not to mention the incredibly ugly texture mapping, Particularly on the faces.

I could go on and on but its simply not worth it, This garbage will go on to outsell PES3 probably 4:1 for what I would call dubious non gaming reasoning, But thats todays industry and target audience for you.

And its a massive shame about the VJ sales in comparison to the others.

[John Beaulieu]

The whole "when it comes to getting the names, likenesses right" etc is entirely down to the fact that they have purchased the license, If they didn't have this then the game wouldn't be bought by the kind of consumers who go for the gloss.

EA have paid top bucks for the license so that it would appeal 'to a certain kind of consumers' - these self same consumers who spend days/weeks changing all the names on we/pes, designing correct badges/strips, moving players between teams or even creating new players to fit their real-life squads.... even downloading patches and applying them........ but its all 'gloss'

There is a reason people say "**** all" about the updates to Winning Eleven its mainly because the people who buy them understand that at a core the game is technically sound and gameplay wise its unrivalled.

3 updates per year (we/we evo and we j-league - whoops almost forgot the u-21 iterations released some years) - minimal gameplay changes whilst altering squads/player kits etc (hmmmmm would this be termed as the gloss from the above point?). hypocrisy anyone?

[shogun2k]

Heh, Im sure there was a topic somewhere

[Brats]

This garbage will go on to outsell PES3 probably 4:1 for what I would call dubious non gaming reasoning, But thats todays industry and target audience for you.

Last year, PES2 held its own very well against the PS2 version of FIFA. FIFA sold more overall, but then that's because it's multi format.

Although you obviously don't like the game (which is fair enough), you haven't said anything that qualifies the game as "garbage" or "****e". Either you've been lucky and haven't played some truly ****e games or your frame of reference is up the swanny .

Arguing the toss over the player's faces just seems like barrel scraping to me. The weight of the ball is subjective, so it seems surprising that you can't accept that other people may genuinely like the game and may buy it for things other than "non gaming reasons" (i.e. they might actually like the gameplay!). I can't stand the MGS series, but I can appreciate why people love it and I would never describe the games as "****ing ****e". Get some perspective.

[bowser123]

Personally I could care less about the licensed music thats just one aspect that appeals outside the aspect of the game imo, Just put on a CD in the background if you want to listen to some music.

And I thought the freekicks in Fifa are incredibly limited and give little scope for non direct play. Plus the ball still has no weight and no momentum.

For the budget they have this game should be ALOT more than it is (Many of the fundementals are completely wrong), I utterly hate the way the game plays, In its current guise it could never be a considered purchase... for me anyway.


And its a massive shame about the VJ sales in comparison to the others.

You are absolutely spot on.
For the amount of money and sheer hype Fifa gets you would think they could make a game that at least rivals the old ISS on PS1 and N64. But it doesn't even make that level, never mind competing with Evo 3.

Sales don't equate quality, just look at the huge sales the likes of Matrix have acheived. Fifa is **** in comparison and anybody who buys it over Pro Evo deserves the crap they end up playing.
As for Xbox owners, ISS is a better arcade style game IMO despite its flaws. The PC version of Pro Evo with a PS2-USB pad convertor is a viable alternative for Xbox owners too.

[Shimmyhill]

As for Xbox owners, ISS is a better arcade style game IMO despite its flaws. The PC version of Pro Evo with a PS2-USB pad convertor is a viable alternative for Xbox owners too.

Do xbox's play pc games now

[bowser123]

As for Xbox owners, ISS is a better arcade style game IMO despite its flaws. The PC version of Pro Evo with a PS2-USB pad convertor is a viable alternative for Xbox owners too.

Do xbox's play pc games now

Nope they don't.
But Xbox owners who visit this site mostly do so using a PC and that is their opportunity to play Pro Evo...

[overlord uk]

Do xbox's play pc games now

Haven't you heard, the XBox is a PC

Don't suppose you've got the sales figures for the Sims do you? I bet that manages to still outsell a potentially great (never played it) game like Fifa as well as an (apparently) excellent game like VJ.

[Shimmyhill]

As for Xbox owners, ISS is a better arcade style game IMO despite its flaws. The PC version of Pro Evo with a PS2-USB pad convertor is a viable alternative for Xbox owners too.

Do xbox's play pc games now

Nope they don't.
But Xbox owners who visit this site mostly do so using a PC and that is their opportunity to play Pro Evo...

Hmm i was poking fun

mind i doubt everyone's pc will be able to play it. Now that im lappy only i dont know how it would play it - but im a console boy at heart anyway !

[Mr Ono]

First off, from a gaming point of view Fifa is "****ing ****e". No ifs, no buts. I would even say that Fifa 2004 is a step backwards from last year. It may have high production values and be important to raise the profile of games in general - but it's just not a good game.

Anyway, back on topic:

I find those sales figures very sad. VJ is one of the freshest games for a long time and it just doesn't get the recgonition it deserves but I'm also not suprised by it.

In a way, the gaming is industry is now equivalent to the music industry of the early nineties where Stock, Aitken and Waterman songs dominated whilst the real musicians were left floundering.

Sad, and all it will do is make companies like Capcom, Sega and Namco think about copying EA in churning out mainstream crap just to survive.

[John Beaulieu]

Sad, and all it will do is make companies like Capcom, Sega and Namco think about copying EA in churning out mainstream crap just to survive.

you mean they haven't been doing this already?

Capcom have been churning out mainstream titles for years - annual updates/remixes/straight ports of games a few years old .... but of course its EA who are the ones tarred with that brush

Is EA the reason behind this attitude in the market place or is it simply easier to blame them cos everyone else does?

camps

ps

First off, from a gaming point of view Fifa is "****ing ****e".

thats your opinion and all that - but i ask you what footie games have you played in the past? there have been '****ing ****e' footie games released in the not so distant past and fifa is head and shoulders above these. its the 2nd best footie game (gameplay wise) around - best one available today on xbox - and for that it should be applauded (how many games can boast of being at the top or near the top of their genre for close to 15 years?).

[sininc]

Games sold that were released today

Fifa 2004

ps2 43 copies
xbox 35 copies
Cube 13 copies

Viewtiful Joe

2 copies

Just how sad is that?

I worked at an Indie store for over a year I know how it goes, it got so bad that they stopped stocking the cube after it took 3 months to sell 2 machines.

Big titles sell even if they are crap (no i`m not referring o the games mentioned), good original titles struggle without press attention or liscenses

Mind you my bosses were a bit retarded at times as I wasnt allowed to do ordering until I had been there three months, despite dozens of people asking everyday (no exageration) for PS2 memory cards (when they were ?27.99 a piece) it took over a month for my boss to order them (even though the demand was there and Centresoft (distributor) had them in stock) - Ended up people went to wollies to buy them and we lost a lot of business.

Fortunately after those three months I got to order stuff

[Max M]

Sad, and all it will do is make companies like Capcom, Sega and Namco think about copying EA in churning out mainstream crap just to survive.

you mean they haven't been doing this already?

Capcom have been churning out mainstream titles for years - annual updates/remixes/straight ports of games a few years old .... but of course its EA who are the ones tarred with that brush

Capcom's business model is hardly the same as EA's. Of course games like Resident Evil are very mainstream, but things like Super Puzzle Fighter 2, Viewtiful Joe, Powerstone, Capcom VS SNK are many others are far from it. In fact when you consider things like Devil May Cry and Onimusha, I'd be hard pressed to find another publisher who constantly creates new franchises.