Japan, "Your Games Just Suck"

[Family Fry]

This is all about the internets at the moment surrounding the GDC Indie Game The Movie Screening Q&A , Phil (FEZ) Fish was the man behind the headline quote.

This is what was originally reported.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40061/GDC-Japanese-dev-mocked-your-games-suck

"The Japanese developer praised the movie and said he was pleased to see how many independent developers had been inspired by games such as Super Mario Bros and Zelda since their childhood."

"But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish (pictured) immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering."

Now at GDC there was also a talk called 'The Future of Japanese Games', in which Keiji Inafune said about Japan's influence on gaming “They are now just great, great memories,”


Keiji Inafune quotes from the GDC talk The Future of Japanese Games.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40108/GDC-Inafunes-call-to-arms-for-Japanese-devs

“Perhaps the folks who are now running the show in the Japanese games industry are those who simply jumped on a bandwagon. The creations that measured up to global standards were crafted by our predecessors.”

So two differing ways of expressing the same opinion but what do you think? (about the core message not the different ways of expression)
Does Japanese development hang onto too much pride to stand up and say lets change, lets create?
Can the industry survive developing it's own games/genre/brands and selling solely to its own market?
Do (some) Japanese game now JUST SUCK?

[Brad]

Some Japanese games and game devs suck. Some are amazing. Same as everywhere else. Square are now useless. Nintendo can still make a great game when the feel like it (Galaxy). Seems wrong to tar an entire country's output with the same brush.

['Press Start']

I have thought for a while Japanese games as a whole have become weaker and interest me less. They seem few and far between when looking at my game collection now compared to SNES/PS1/PS2 days. Nintendo's own output as disappointed me with the Wii, I don't know why but most of their games do not hold my attention apart from Mario. Maybe it's me changing but they have definitely dropped off this gen, imo.

Still, Demon Souls & Dark Souls are some of the greatest games ever made (imo) so hopefully what with Vanquish, Binary Domain and a couple of future titles Japan might get its mojo back, with under TV consoles at least.

Seems like most of Japan's talent gets drawn towards Hand held consoles?

[fuse]

I am going to be lazy and quote myself.

(re: Fez) I'll still play the game, but I do think that the guy's a dick. His credibility is based almost entirely on a game that's been in development for god knows how many years and is still yet to be even released - and yet he has the complete absence of humility to make such a sweeping and rude statement in such a public way. I feel for the guy who asked the question, very embarassing.

There was a talk about the 'Future of Japanese games' recently at the Japan Foundation in London. I was hoping to have a commentary about this this written up a bit sooner, which would've linked into this topic quite nicely, but uh, it's not started yet. Once I get a chance I'd like to have a look at the quotes from Inafune's one too, but given how outspoken he was during his exit from Capcom I do have my doubts about how rational / unbiased he can be.

Still, Demon Souls & Dark Souls are some of the greatest games ever made (imo) so hopefully what with Vanquish, Binary Domain and a couple of future titles Japan might get its mojo back, with under TV consoles at least.

Dark Souls and Bayonetta are two examples of unparalleled games that've come out from Japan in recent years for me

[Golgo]

Fish is an unproven hipster gob****e who's pinched the aesthetic for Fez wholesale from a Japanese: Pixel. I hope his vanity project tanks, tbh.

[rmoxon]

Japanese games, like any other games, range from rubbish to great.

Saying all Japanese games are rubbish just makes it sound like you don't play many games.

[Neon Ignition]

It's just moronic statement to make. Sure there was a golden age of Japanese design but then the industry pretty much ran off that market back then so any innovation was bound to come from there. It was an uncomparable market then to now and gaming was in its infancy so original design was easier to generate. People tend to massively over nostalgalise the era when Japan was the top of its game, forgetting the mountain of rubbish they've always produced too. What people are actually referring to when they discuss the Japanese market is that their games don't sell well anymore rather than there's no good ones. It's swings and round abouts though, western devs are far to comfortable with their success too, often patting themselves on the back for the tiniest of trends. In time the gaming market will probably shift to China or somewhere and we'll get similar daft comments about the western market.

[averybluemonkey]

It's no more a moronic statement to make than the patronising and insulting statement which the questioner stated before posing his question. Which tarred western developers in much the same way.

[charlesr]

Whilst comment that you can't tar everyone with the same brush are valid, they aren't really getting into the swing of this topic i.e. Has there been on overall decline in the quality (and output?) of Japanese games? I've no idea how you would measure this though.

Certainly something that I've noticed is the general decrease in difficulty of the standard fare, but maybe that affects all regions. Apart from Demon Souls.

[Flabio]

It's hard to deny that in terms of technical proficiency on the current 'big' consoles, the Japanese have fallen behind the west.

Game design wise though? I'd say that's down across the board globally.

[fuse]

It's no more a moronic statement to make than the patronising and insulting statement which the questioner stated before posing his question. Which tarred western developers in much the same way.

From the Fez thread;

The reports out there make me laugh, they are almost on Sun newspaper levels of editing actual events for shock news.

"The Japanese developer praised the movie and said he was pleased to see how many independent developers had been inspired by games such as Super Mario Bros and Zelda since their childhood."

"But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering."

Rightfully there were some cheering because, if anything on PC or Console, this generation has highlighted that Japanese Development just got lazy.

Doesn't seem that patronising, insulting, or moronic a question to me.

Fish is an unproven hipster gob****e who's pinched the aesthetic for Fez wholesale from a Japanese: Pixel. I hope his vanity project tanks, tbh.

Nearly made me spit my water out.

[Decider-VT]

Fish is an unproven hipster gob****e who's pinched the aesthetic for Fez wholesale from a Japanese: Pixel. I hope his vanity project tanks, tbh.

My goodwill toward Fez is evaporating, although it's thankfully outweighed by my curiosity. It looks like fun but Fish really does come across like the aforementioned gob****e in interviews. (Here's one from 2007, where he gets defensive about comparisons to Super Paper Mario). He's almost a caricature of a modern indie developer.

[Kaido]

Of course some of the games developed in Japan are bad, same as anywhere else. (Hyperdimension Neptunia (original) for example imo)

The guy is entitled to his opinion, but he should have made it clear that he doesn't speak for everyone.

Are Japanese companies losing their market share because relative quality from a western perspective is down? Perhaps. Need some data to prove that, any public individual opinions about western appetites for japanese cultured games doesn't really show the picture.

[k0pp0]

Ditto Fuse.

The guy is a over opinionated dick. Was going to buy his game, but after reading his interviews and comments on twitter he can spin.

[Guts]

I think your game sucks, Mr. Fish!

Zing!

Edit: My god, that guy looks like a hipster douche.