Piracy on Older Consoles

[Guts]

I fully condone piracy of games and other media if it's not available or only available as very expensive collector's items.

Take a game like Policenauts, never released outside Japan, now thanks to internet, there's a fan translation so people around the world can enjoy and experience the game. Is it wrong to download Policenauts? Would it be better to let it vanish from existence?

And piracy certainly hasn't devalued something like Suikoden 2 which is ?200 new on Amazon and ?130 used... Not available digitally or on any other console here.

[Matt~]

I've only 'pirated' a handful of old games, but I haven't found the moral arguments against it very convincing. However I agree that when someone downloads/burns a ****load of games then the games might become "throwaway experiences" and they just won't be arsed to play most of them.

1. You're devaluing the original products out there. By downloading and making use of a product, you lessen the demand for the original copy, making the real cartridges/discs out there less worth than they should be.

Is this really the case? I'm primarily a Playstation fan so I don't own a lot of expensive games and maybe this has passed over my head, but seeing the prices older games fetch I can't see this pattern, or think of any examples where a game seems to have been devalued at some point by being made more available by piracy or redistribution. An example to the contrary that sticks out in my head is the playstation game Tombi!/Tomba! It's supposedly uncommon and has been swapping hands for high prices for years because of this.

A real copy will set you back the best part of 100 quid, and so most people who played it downloaded it and emulated or burned a disc. Earlier this year it was made available for download on PSN - lo and behold, the game has not devalued. Maybe if the only way to play the game nowadays was to hunt down an original copy, it would cost more. But then if there's no sudden or gradual devaluation, nobody who has bought it loses any money, and we've already established that the developers or rights holders aren't losing any money. This leads on to the next thing I wanted to say...

2. By lessening the demand for the actual game on trading sites, the games popularity is less prolific, and is hurting the chances of the game being distributed digitally/getting a sequel/remastered/getting known by more people etc.

High demand and fetching high prices on trading sites doesn't make a game popular, it just makes it expensive. I could say with equal validity that because people have the ability to play such uncommon games through downloading and emulation/burning a disc, the games popularity becomes more prolific (especially due to online discussion and let's play videos) and increases the chances of redistrobution and whatnot - as appears to have been the case with Tombi!/Tomba! which came to PSN by huge popular demand.

So in this case what we brand as "piracy" appears to have actually made more money for the developers/rights holders, as the game could have faded into obscurity otherwise, even if it did continue to change hands among collectors for a high price.

[Dogg Thang]

If Alex gets his way , that act of piracy would be 2 years solitary confinement without parole ;-)

Alex made excellent points. I sense basic avoidance here. Thing is, it's better for you to justify piracy because, well, it's free stuff isn't it?

For me, it comes down to simple respect and the knowledge that entertainment is not free to make. Not by a long shot. And it deserves to be paid for. And while there are grey areas like the original topic at hand (old games where some simply won't see any revenue anyway - yet in the day of VC etc this is much less relevant than it once was), piracy doesn't end there and it's really all tied in with the perception that entertainment is free and paying for it is a bonus reward.

But it's easy to see why it works for so many people and so it's rarely worth arguing.

[charlesr]

wow - some real changing attitudes to piracy. If some of these comments had been posted 5+ years ago on ntsc-uk, there would have been up-roar...

The ntsc-uk mission statement included "we embrace the emulation scene" which is what this thread is all about - playing old ROMs of games you can't get any more.

[dvdx2]

Alex made excellent points. I sense basic avoidance here. Thing is, it's better for you to justify piracy because, well, it's free stuff isn't it?

For me, it comes down to simple respect and the knowledge that entertainment is not free to make. Not by a long shot. And it deserves to be paid for. And while there are grey areas like the original topic at hand (old games where some simply won't see any revenue anyway - yet in the day of VC etc this is much less relevant than it once was), piracy doesn't end there and it's really all tied in with the perception that entertainment is free and paying for it is a bonus reward.

But it's easy to see why it works for so many people and so it's rarely worth arguing.

Avoidance of what? I have large collections of original retro/modern/blurays/dvds etc. It would mean nothing to me if piracy ended tomorrow.

Back in the real world, providers offer unlimited downloads, you can get massive hard drives for storage, free to download burning software, cheap blank media, minimal policing of torrents etc The whole PC market/internet easily facilitates piracy and its getting worse.

[burntoutbanger]

b) There was a really good pirate game on the Spectrum but I can't remember what it was called. Maybe Treasure Island but a google search brings up Dizzy's Treasure Island and it's not that...

Sorry if already mentioned,

Booty?

[parkinho]

I fully condone piracy of games and other media if it's not available or only available as very expensive collector's items.

Take a game like Policenauts, never released outside Japan, now thanks to internet, there's a fan translation so people around the world can enjoy and experience the game. Is it wrong to download Policenauts? Would it be better to let it vanish from existence?

And piracy certainly hasn't devalued something like Suikoden 2 which is ?200 new on Amazon and ?130 used... Not available digitally or on any other console here.

I agree with you on this Guts. Of all the reasons against pirating old games, I think the notion that we shouldn't because it devalues the original cartridge/disc is ridiculous - the thought of rare and expensive games out there, unable to be experienced and enjoyed by the majority through any reasonable means is much worse than downloading a copy off the net. And I say this as someone who hasn't had a single ROM on my computer for over 5 years.

[noobish hat]

Pretty much all retro games you could download have already been paid for. By which I mean the developers and publishers received payment for their work. Fair day's pay for a fair day's work, and all that. Rereleasing them now on the Virtual Console is just profiteering. That's fine, I guess, but it's no noble crusade worth defending. Unless you're actually hacking the Virtual Console to download from Nintendo's own servers for free, then who gives a ****.

[Kit]

I've run hot and cold on this subject. Listening to a similar discussion on the Giantbombcast I agree with Jeff Gerstmann's opinion that games should be kept for archival purposes, because ten years down the line who on earth is going to want to play Bubsy or automobili lamborghini? the rights holders are long gone and there's no chance in hell they'll see a Virtual Console or PSN release.

[Dogg Thang]

Sorry if already mentioned,

Booty?

I LOVE googling 'Booty'. Doesn't seem to be the one I remember though. Thanks for the suggestion!

[EvilBoris]

But the big studios create the cost. THEY'RE the ones who decide to make a game that requires however much money. Tim Schafer or Charles Cecil could download Adventure Game Studio and make a game for almost no money at all, and it would still be better than all the Halos and CODs produced in the last decade. Not every game needs to be like a blockbuster movie with a budget to match (in fact none of them do), but the likes of EA have decided that's all that will sell.

I don't believe that, I believe that consumers WANT blockbuster games that look better, sound better, have better voice acting, have more levels are less buggy etc etc etc.

Prime example of games that do not follow the example of the Hollywood blockbuster games you talk of are the countless Digital titles that often offer just as much content as the triple AAA retail titles, but people resent the price, even if it's a quarter of the price.

These games deliberately have smaller budgets and as a result are scaled back in a way that reflects the price, but they don't sell a fraction of what the Blockbusters do, so it's hardly suprising that as a business a company might want to create more of these big hitters.

[EvilBoris]

That's along the lines of the theory I have on what we will be our doom/turning point/general cataclysmic event. We are nearing a point when everybody has access to or can replicate every piece of digital entertainment and consumer electronic they would ever need. At that point, what is going to motivate people to go to work, abide by the law, and in general be a useful cog in our society?

You'll have to buy it all through itunes and Apple will literally own your house, so they will just make you homeless when they find out you've downloaded a coffee table.

[Matt~]

You'll have to buy it all through itunes and Apple will literally own your house, so they will just make you homeless when they find out you've downloaded a coffee table.

Laughed hard

[ETC]

Meh... I don't care if people do and it's only my business if I choose to myself. The easiest approach is be your own judge for if you think it's right or not.

Surely Swag is a better word than Booty although both make me want to drink rum... Mmmm Rum

[Yakumo]

So this makes me wonder, why do people (some on here) spend a **** ton of money to get the exact same experience for a cost of some blank discs?

You my son, are an arse head. I'm sure 90% of this forum will agree with me on that.