Nintendo: Not as good as they were.

[Crisp_Rapper]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

cater for the 'hardcore' and you leave the mainstream buyers sat saying 'the ****???'

cater for the mainstream and have the 'hardcore' saying you're not as good as you used to be.

we've come to expect the amazing from nintendo and it doesn't always arrive. nobody is perfect. not even nintendo.

[FelixofMars]

To be honest I am getting a bit sick of them re-using there own IPs over and over again, and the Games with said IP's have not been as good as there preddessors recently for example Mario Sunshine and Windwaker. I think Nintendo are going the way of the rest of the developers and turning out the same old thing over and over again with little or no innovation. I also rush to pint out that the better games haven't come from Nintendo themsleves on the Gamecube, Games such as Metroid Prime and Super Smash (created by developers for Nintendo, but Nintendo didn't acctually work on them) and 3rd party stuff like Viewtiful Joe, Soul Caliber 2 and PN03 felt more playable than anything Nintendo has slapped a licence on recently.. but thats my view!

[Montaver]

I agree with certain points here but not all:
Firstly, SSB:M had tons of depth, tatically it was just as good as any other fighter i.e. Roll's, blocking, juggling etc.

Secondly, I would agree, SMS was pretty poor for a Nintendo game, however I think expectations were pretty high after the glorious Mario 64. People to keep crying for innovation, but to be perfectly honest, I think the next "big" change i.e. from 2d to 3d was is a long way off.

This brings me onto Zelda:WW, admitedly after having a long break from consoles (been playing alot of Counter-Strike, just even more than usual), I would say it's brilliant. Alright, it doesnt seem to have the opening scope of OOT yet, but the gameplay is there, and so are the little intricacies that make Zelda games so great i.e. the crazy dialogue, characters etc.

MP I hated, but maybe I was spoiled by Halo, MP just didnt seem like a game that required a great deal of skill and suffered for it.
Havnt got F Zero yet, but I didnt like the previous game so I doubt i'll be buying it.

I think the problem is, people expected another great revolution from this generation, when in reality its more of an evolution. It's very easy to become disinterested in console games at the moment, however there are still great games to be played.

Still, nothing beats a good game of Soul Calibur (love that sexy DC RGB)

[Moodmon]

Standards people, standards.

N64 had the most play in my house of all the last generation of consoles. OoT and Jet Force Gemini were revolutionary experiences to me. Nothing else came close.

The GC has some mighty fine games. WW and Prime are ace. Yet I have spent far more time on the Xbox with Halo and KOTOR. In that respect, Nintendo aren't as good as they used to be, but it's not a fair comparision.

Make up your own minds.

[2097]

Peronally I think Nintendo are at their best.

Its a very difficault time, where they are under pressure from all sides, expectations on everything they do are impossibly high because of their past work, they've recently lost and changed chairman and the whole industry is changing and they are having to as well..

They are at their most productive, they are trying to spread their ideals to other companies (Namco, Sega, Treasure..) and I think they are producing their best work to date. Unlike the N64 era when they were complacent and stubborn, now they are at least trying to fight.

There is a great mixture between old and new. You cant really blame them for producing sequels, would you really want them to kill off Zelda, Mario and Pokemon? There is still a lot that can be done with these series.

Animal Crossing, WarioWare Inc, F-Zero GX, Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, Super Mario Sunshine, Golden Sun 1/2, Advance Wars 1/2, Metroid Prime/Fusion, Waverace: Blue Storm, Luigi's Mansion, 1080 Avalanche, Zelda: The Wind Waker, Doshin The Giant, Super Smash Brothers: Melee, Starfox Adventures, Mario Golf, Fire Emblem, Eternal Darkness, WarioWorld, Animal Leader, Nintendo Puzzle Collection, Pikmin, Kirby: Nightmare In Dreamland, Pokemon Ruby & Sapphire, Kirby's Air Ride.. I dont see any other publishers comming close.

Not to mention the stuff still to come this generation: Mario 128, Pokemon Colloseum, Pokemon Fire Red & Blue, Custom Robo, Paper Mario, Mother 1-3, Stage Debut, Donkey Konga, Too Human, Game Zero, Geist, Mario Tennis, Starfox 2, Pikmin 2, Mario Party 5, Animal Crossing 2 and all the stuff we dont know about and that ive forgotten about...

[Joe Musashi]

Peronally I think Nintendo are at their best.

Its a very difficault time, where they are under pressure from all sides, expectations on everything they do are impossibly high because of their past work, they've recently lost and changed chairman and the whole industry is changing and they are having to as well..

They are at their most productive, they are trying to spread their ideals to other companies (Namco, Sega, Treasure..) and I think they are producing their best work to date. Unlike the N64 era when they were complacent and stubborn, now they are at least trying to fight.

There is a great mixture between old and new. You cant really blame them for producing sequels, would you really want them to kill off Zelda, Mario and Pokemon? There is still a lot that can be done with these series.

Animal Crossing, WarioWare Inc, F-Zero GX, Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, Super Mario Sunshine, Golden Sun 1/2, Advance Wars 1/2, Metroid Prime/Fusion, Waverace: Blue Storm, Luigi's Mansion, 1080 Avalanche, Zelda: The Wind Waker, Doshin The Giant, Super Smash Brothers: Melee, Starfox Adventures, Mario Golf, Fire Emblem, Eternal Darkness, WarioWorld, Animal Leader, Nintendo Puzzle Collection, Pikmin, Kirby: Nightmare In Dreamland, Pokemon Ruby & Sapphire, Kirby's Air Ride.. I dont see any other publishers comming close.

Not to mention the stuff still to come this generation: Mario 128, Pokemon Colloseum, Pokemon Fire Red & Blue, Custom Robo, Paper Mario, Mother 1-3, Stage Debut, Donkey Konga, Too Human, Game Zero, Geist, Mario Tennis, Starfox 2, Pikmin 2, Mario Party 5, Animal Crossing 2 and all the stuff we dont know about and that ive forgotten about...

... And they are not treating the countries in Europe as 3rd World countries anymore! Finally!

[insin_]

I've been extremely happy with Nintendo's lot this generation - on top of the fact that I've just become used to all games having 60Hz modes (at last! this may come to annoy me when I eventually invest in a PS2, as I've gathered that 60Hz modes aren't common there), I've managed to avoid the vast majority of hype preceding their "big releases" (e.g. all I knew about Mario Sunshine was that Mario had a backpack and whatever else I had garnered from a few screenshots), while I've also tried to avoid discussions which arise just after the game is released, and as such I've enjoyed them immensely (as an aside, I've noticed that less time talking about games on the internet and more time actually playing results in more enjoyment - you aren't bombarded with the negaticity which is thrown about all to easily and you find it easier to sit down for a good session - I'd never have got properly into XBox Shenmue II if it wasn't for the week I had with no daytime internet access).

I don't know if it's really of any relevence, but I now own more games for my GameCube than I have ever owned for any other console.

[Keith@gamesTM]

Has anyone considered that it might not be so much a case of Nintendo getting worse as it is other developers improving? Ubisoft, for example, over the last year has developed and published many quality titles. Beyond Good And Evil is particularly reminiscent of a Nintendo in-house product, for example.

[John Beaulieu]

Ubisoft have the greatest platform game this gen - followed by Sony ... now who would have expected Nintendo to lose their crown in this genre?

[Max M]

Ubisoft have the greatest platform game this gen - followed by Sony ...

I don't know if I'd consider ICO and Prince of Persia platform games though. Surely they're more adventure games with platforming elements (like Tomb Raider)? Epsecially the combat, which seems closer to Zelda than Mario.

Ubi-Soft's definately improved in a big way this gen though.

[Keith@gamesTM]

POP & Ico are indeed platform games. Both go to show how varied the genre has become.

Ico is my favourite next-gen game, but it still isn't as good as Super Mario World or Yoshi's Island.

[Burai]

Not as good as they were... Suppose not. Then again, if I'd spent the past two decades creating and perfecting a large number of genre's, I don't suppose I'd be as good as I once was.

Nintendo's problemis that they are having to compete in a whole different market to the one that afforded them the time to make sublime games like Super Mario World and Ocarina of Time.

Smaller developement timespans and less third party releases can only mean trouble. It's at times like this when they probably wish they'd kept Rare on their toes back in the N64 days instead of letting them turn into the showboating leeches they ended up selling.

[Ady]

I think Nintendo are doing fine. The problem is people's expectations of them are too unrealistic.

Even when they do make quality titles, they're ignored. They just can't win.

And yeah, other devs are getting better. Ico is more of an adventure game than a classic platformer to me.

[jayboy]

Well Mario Kart DD stinks pretty bad IMO, but Nintendo are never gonna get things right all the time. I was so disappointed with Mario Kart DD, but then I started playing Wario Ware on the GBA, and I forgave Nintendo everything.

To everyone who thinks Nintendo have lost it, or are not churning out quality games...pick up a GBA and Wario, maybe Advance Wars too.....Wario Ware is my game of the year, and if you love games, and love Nintendo this game will remind you why.

[tamago]

To be honest I am getting a bit sick of them re-using there own IPs over and over again, and the Games with said IP's have not been as good as there preddessors recently for example Mario Sunshine and Windwaker. I think Nintendo are going the way of the rest of the developers and turning out the same old thing over and over again with little or no innovation. I also rush to pint out that the better games haven't come from Nintendo themsleves on the Gamecube, Games such as Metroid Prime and Super Smash (created by developers for Nintendo, but Nintendo didn't acctually work on them) and 3rd party stuff like Viewtiful Joe, Soul Caliber 2 and PN03 felt more playable than anything Nintendo has slapped a licence on recently.. but thats my view!

You have to have a path to your innovation, you can't just just arrive there, you need a little evolution inbetween.

?? -> Alone in the Dark -> Biohazard -> DMC -> PN03

Revolutions tend to be a little rough around the edges, evolutions tidy things up and provide a stage for the next revolution.