Your 5 hardest games EVER

[MisterBubbles]

So just wanted a little discussion to your absolute hardest, throw your controller at the tv and just swear like a trooper games. Here's mine, 5) Battletoads 4) Demon Souls 3) Ninja Gaiden Black or Sigma 2) Gradius 5 1) The top dog that i can't hardly get anywhere in, Super Ghouls N Ghost's

[Kit]

Ugh... Super Ghouls n Ghosts. It's insanely difficult but fair in a way, which is why it's so damn frustrating as it makes you think you're making progress only for you to get owned later on down the road. I can't even get past the first level sadly!

I will never touch Battletoads in my life. I've seen gameplay vids and it doesn't even look like it gives you a chance!

[Asura]

Here's an interesting one - has anyone ever made a list of games that are extremely (even punishingly) difficult, yet are finely balanced and never unfair?

Like many people on this topic will name Ikaruga. I've always felt that a bad example as I'm convinced anyone with reasonable reactions can beat Ikaruga; however, you just have to be prepared to memorise everything once you get two or three levels in (the point where I lost interest).

[Golgo]

Super Ghouls and Ghosts is a top choice. Last time I played it was one a plane, one of those in-flight entertainment jobbies. I very nearly hijacked the plane and nosedived it into the sea in my nerdrage, but then the peanuts came and I calmed down a bit. (At some point someone will come in and say the Souls games aren't hard/cheap - which they frequently are - but merely punish you fairly for your mistakes, etc.)

[eastyy]

almost every King of fighter boss and the ai in a lot of fighting games have almost made me break a controller like mortal kombat where the ai would seem to predict every move

Most recent game i remember that i found just to hard was dark souls i think demon souls was my limit as i completed that but dark souls was to much

[Golgo]

Dark Souls isn't hard or cheap, it just punishes you fairly for your mistakes.

[Mayhem]

Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on SNES isn't THAT hard... I've beaten it on one credit before.

[rmoxon]

Dark souls is hard, but it never feels punishing, probably because the game is such a joy to play and you actually want to be good at it.

I would say that Ninja Gaiden 2 was more difficult.

It is hard to compare new games to old games though as a lot of old games were only hard because you couldn't save in them mid way through levels. It is not because they were harder than modern games from a gameplay standpoint. For instance the old Ninja Gaiden games have a reputation for being hard, but the first game is actually very easy besides one insanely difficult level.

Stuff like the earlier Rainbow six games are the hardest kind of games because they were so realistic, you actually had to be a special forces operative to play them.

Obviously bullet hell type Shmups are up there too.

[Charlie]

Tricky one. Some of the stuff from the 8-bit era is insanely difficult. Stuff like Jet Set Willy and Robotron 2084.

[Golgo]

I found bullet hell shmups quite easy when I realised you're not actually meant to waste time trying to shoot stuff and look out for enemies, but instead are meant to be focusing solely on your tiny hitpoint and just weaving it in and out of the pretty blobs with fire button pressed down regardless. Ridiculous genre. If indeed it's worth the name.

[rmoxon]

I found bullet hell shmups quite easy when I realised you're not actually meant to waste time trying to shoot stuff and look out for enemies, but instead are meant to be focusing solely on your tiny hitpoint and just weaving it in and out of the pretty blobs with fire button pressed down regardless. Ridiculous genre. If indeed it's worth the name.

If you're holding down the fire button then you aren't actually playing them well. And if you find waving in and out of thousands of bullets that that fill the entire screen easy then you must have the worlds greatest reflexes, because even experts find them hard.

If youre so good at them, Try to 1CC Mushihimesama futari on ultra mode, then come back here and tell us how long it took you to achieve that (providing we haven't died of old age by then).

[Golgo]

I wasn't being entirely serious, you silly, over-sensitive fellow.

[englishbob]

I find Demon and Dark Souls hard and sometimes unfair because it can be trial and error gaming at its worst and most punishing. There are encouters in both games that you just do no expect, and end up turning into one-hit kills/Game Over.

[Sketcz]

At some point someone will come in and say the Souls games aren't hard/cheap - which they frequently are - but merely punish you fairly for your mistakes, etc.

I'm going to flat out say they are not difficult. This really bugs me, actually. I completed both Souls games quite easily. There are two reasons why they are very easy games:

1) Everything, absolutely everything, is pre-ordained. Enemy position, enemy reaction, enemy AI. There is nothing procedural. The games are coded like a Swiss watch. An enemy will always be in the same place doing the same thing. It's more rigid than an old school shmup. Meaning memorisation always wins.

2) Every difficult situation I was in had an easy option to side-step it. They borked magic in the sequel, but there were still ways to spam your way through easily. I like that. It gives you a reason to experiment with the system. Work out its vulnerabilities. Find a safe spot. Etc. With other player messages, it was possible to find that one perfect safe zone during boss fights (like with the underground spider in the mines).


I have played a lot of games which people describe as easy, but I would say are a thousand times harder than the Souls games, because things are procedural and it's not possible to learn them.

Hotline Miami is one good example. Toughest game I've played this generation. 1-hit-kills and 100% randomisation of enemies meaning you can never improve at it. There is no skill, only random luck.


EDIT:
For the record, I'm not saying I'm an extremely skilled Souls player, just that I found it easy to manipulate the game's strictly pre-arranged situations.

[Brad]

Metagalactic llamas battle at the edge of time, level 99.