Virtual Reality

[Asura]

Wait, so you're saying my eyes are too close together? You think I look weird?

I wasn't going to say anything, buuuut

In seriousness though, it's because the Quest 2 has 1 rectangular screen, but the Quest 3 has 2 screens. That means when you slide the Quest's IPD slider to the high values, on the Q3, it's the same across the whole range because the screens move in line with the lenses. On the Q2, as it's one rectangle, it means that in the wider IPD setting, you can see the left and right edges of the screen which crop at the edges of your vision, and it's quite noticeable. This is entirely fixed on the Q3.

I used to use the Q2 on the widest IPD and it wasn't quite wide enough (weirdly, the Q2's max is lower than the Q1's), as I apparently am a hammerhead shark, so the jump to the Q3 is a massive difference for me.

[Neon Ignition]

Maybe that's why I find it so noticeable. Out of the headsets I've used, Q3 is by far and away the clearest display. Nothing comes close.

[Asura]

Maybe that's why I find it so noticeable. Out of the headsets I've used, Q3 is by far and away the clearest display. Nothing comes close.

That's the thing. I remember using the PSVR as the first VR headset I owned (after only briefly trying some older models) and I always thought it was blurry - but I just kinda internalised that this was how it was meant to be. No-one else seemed to complain. The Quest 1 was actually a bit better for me, Q2 was worse (but better in other ways so I put up with it).

Everyone has different shaped heads and different IPDs. That's a real issue for VR.

[Neon Ignition]

https://bsky.app/profile/giokinto.bsky.social/post/3lbhqhaa74s2d

PSVR2 makes minimal dent on PC whilst Meta takes near 65% of the market share

https://bsky.app/profile/giokinto.bsky.social/post/3lbrpbiakxs2d

Growth has now flatlined for PCVR on Steam

[Asura]

https://bsky.app/profile/giokinto.bs.../3lbrpbiakxs2d
Growth has now flatlined for PCVR on Steam

This is a bit of a half-truth.

The % of VR users on Steam has not increased. It's slightly fallen, but only slightly. It's still (IIRC) about 1.5%.

However, the total number of Steam users has increased significantly, going from ~90m in 2019 to ~130m in 2024. That's nearly a third more. That means 1.5% is also a third more VR users.

Now... That's not exactly inspiring growth. But I think there's a lot of negativity about VR from some sectors (see also: all the salt over there being a Batman Arkham game on the platform that isn't on console) and I sometimes feel that any news that can be spun as negative about VR becomes newsworthy for that reason alone.

[Neon Ignition]

I'm guessing that's nearly all on Meta then, as that 5 year growth would also cover the major growth during COVID which will have subsided now

[Asura]

I'm guessing that's nearly all on Meta then, as that 5 year growth would also cover the major growth during COVID which will have subsided now

Yeah. The only growth space in consumer VR, really, is stand-alone, and its only real player is Meta. Pico have had a go and haven't made much headway; they've kinda got the immense drag factor that their hardware is broadly similar to Meta's, but generally not as good, and they're owned by ByteDance so if you weren't buying a Quest because of Meta, you're not gonna buy one of those either.

The VR community is still awaiting the mystical Valve Deckard, which got a lot more press this month after the leaks of its supposed controller, "Roy".

[Asura]

Seems I spoke too soon! That Valve Deckard/Roy thing might be a bit further along than I previously believed. Apparently some recent Steam firmware contains blender 3D files for a set of Valve VR controllers that don't match existing designs.

[Neon Ignition]

I'm curious what Valve do with Deckard, assuming it's another high price point headset. I think one of the main concerns for VR now is definitely that the market is so incredibly Meta leaning. Valve's hardware might be very interesting and well designed but as popular as they and Steam are their hardware - even Deck - are incredibly niche and low volume so that sense that the market is so reliant on Zuckerberg's interest in the sector is a weird hopeful yet depressing place to be.

[Asura]

I'm curious what Valve do with Deckard, assuming it's another high price point headset. I think one of the main concerns for VR now is definitely that the market is so incredibly Meta leaning. Valve's hardware might be very interesting and well designed but as popular as they and Steam are their hardware - even Deck - are incredibly niche and low volume so that sense that the market is so reliant on Zuckerberg's interest in the sector is a weird hopeful yet depressing place to be.

The current rumour is that the headset is functionally a bit like the Steam Deck, in that it has stand-alone hardware like the Quest, but it would use the entire Steam library and have a process whereby games are whitelisted for it. So some VR games could be optimised for it, while the bulk of PCVR games would be played wirelessly, like many people already do with the Quest.

Plus you could play non-VR games in a similar way to how the Quest plays Xbox games, but in some cases literally loaded onto the headset.

[wakka]

Yeah those have always been my assumptions about it. The name itself kind of makes clear that it's a Deck-like product, i.e. standalone, rather than an Index 2.

Also Index was always a weirdly boring name for a space-age videogame cyber helmet. Always made me think of the catalogue shop. The Steam Littlewoods, if you will. The Valve Argos.

I wonder what price they will pitch it at. The Index was incredibly expensive, but the Steam Deck is great value. If I had to put a finger in the air and guess I'd say it'll be between the Steam Deck's starter price of £349 and the Index's £919 price. Maybe £549.

[Asura]

I wonder what price they will pitch it at. The Index was incredibly expensive, but the Steam Deck is great value. If I had to put a finger in the air and guess I'd say it'll be between the Steam Deck's starter price of £349 and the Index's £919 price. Maybe £549.

I'm honestly expecting closer to £1k. The Quest 3 apparently loses quite a lot per-unit-sold on its £470 or so price.

Part of the reason I really want it to come out is to answer a burning question; there are many gamers out there who really want, essentially, a Quest 3 that also works with PC games, but just made by someone they trust. The Deckard would be put-up-or-shut-up for those people, and I just want to know how many people that is. Is it thousands? Or millions?

[wakka]

Oh okay, that's very interesting regarding the Quest 3's price.

I guess it comes down to what they can expect to recoup from buyers in terms of commission on games sold to them on the device. The most cursory 30 seconds of googling seems to indicate estimates that the bill of materials on the Deck was $450 two years ago. Since it launched at $399, that seems to indicate they were probably willing to break even or take a small loss on each unit, with income coming from game sales and better margins on higher storage models.

Maybe that will be the case for Deckard, too. I think a £1k price would be a tough sell for all but the most dedicated VR players honestly.

[Asura]

Oh okay, that's very interesting regarding the Quest 3's price.

I guess it comes down to what they can expect to recoup from buyers in terms of commission on games sold to them on the device. The most cursory 30 seconds of googling seems to indicate estimates that the bill of materials on the Deck was $450 two years ago. Since it launched at $399, that seems to indicate they were probably willing to break even or take a small loss on each unit, with income coming from game sales and better margins on higher storage models.

Maybe that will be the case for Deckard, too. I think a £1k price would be a tough sell for all but the most dedicated VR players honestly.

I think the issue is the Deck caters to a much broader software base. There are new games pitched at it, but also many older games work well on it, especially after a patch, just by virtue of PC spec creep.

It's hard to judge though. Valve releasing a headset like this could be an absolutely earth-shattering bit of news for the PCVR industry. I would half-expect to see tons of developers come out of the woodwork and patch their games; titles like RAW/DATA are a great example, where they work when you play them via Quest, but not fantastically well because they're made to an outdated set of XR standards.

[wakka]

You make a good point. It's easy to think they shouldn't make the Deckard too expensive, but at the same time, the addressable market for the thing is pretty small as it is, and the available software pool smaller still, so there needs to be enough juice in each sale to make it worth the squeeze for Valve.

It's hard to judge though. Valve releasing a headset like this could be an absolutely earth-shattering bit of news for the PCVR industry. I would half-expect to see tons of developers come out of the woodwork and patch their games; titles like RAW/DATA are a great example, where they work when you play them via Quest, but not fantastically well because they're made to an outdated set of XR standards.

That would be really cool to see. Valve do feel really well placed to compete with Meta in VR gaming. I can't imagine a better company to do it.