Virtual Reality

[MartyG]

Having to use a Facebook logging is definitely a downside, although if you have an existing Oculus account I don't think they're enforcing the switch just yet. Not that it really makes a massive difference as I'm sure they've been collecting all sorts of metrics regardless of which login you're using - it's all going to Facebook's servers - big data is going to be able to match stuff up.

Should Facebook get this out at $299, then that's an obvious loss leader on their part which no doubt means making that loss up through data collection, advertising and the wall garden app store (although the walls are a bit weak there).

With all that said, the tech in Quest 2 really is quite a leap over the original, this is not a small upgrade.

[Brad]

Maybe to clear up some misconceptions, there’s no walled garden. I get all my vr games through steam. Nothing through oculus store. I can use the rift via the steam vr layer. Facebook sucks but you can login via oculus account for another 2 years at least. Open source vr drivers are coming along leaps and bounds and supporting pretty much all the headsets and operating systems.

If come 2022 I have to log in with Facebook and the open source solution isn’t viable then I’ll create a Facebook account. The only thing using it will be my vr and I guess Facebook will know what games I’m playing. If it’s any worse than that I’ll buy a different headset but I’m not panicking right now.

[MartyG]

That's what I meant by weak walls - however, not everyone (and actually I'd think probably a higher percentage not) are going to be using Quest via a PC with a SteamVR layer - majority of PC users aren't going to have the PC grunt for it.

Running with the Oculus service in the background adds a further load to VR processing than it does just running Index on its own with just SteamVR - adding the wireless streaming layer on top of that over tethered and more load again.

As it's sold primarily as a stand alone unit, then those users using it as such will find themselves in the wall garden of Facebook's store. In fact, anoyingly, buying via the Oculus Go doesn't grant you the Quest permissions in most cases (I don't buy Go apps anymore).

If the chaps cleverer than I can get open source drivers working with Quest 2 on the SteamVR layer, bypassing the need for the Oculus service to be running in the background, Quest 2 could be a very very good and very very cheap VR headset for PC.

[Asura]

Having to use a Facebook logging is definitely a downside, although if you have an existing Oculus account I don't think they're enforcing the switch just yet.

They're not for existing users, but any new devices will require an FB login just to get them to boot up. They're going to stop supporting the old flow, so if you buy an OQ2, you need to provide one just to get the thing to boot up.

Should Facebook get this out at $299, then that's an obvious loss leader on their part which no doubt means making that loss up through data collection, advertising and the wall garden app store (although the walls are a bit weak there).

This is the major concern, IMO. It was never about the switchover; it was the change of ethos, that Oculus, which previously was quite distinct (even if it was sharing data), will now be retooled to be something that, first and foremost, serves FB's business interests. So even if you're fine with how this is now, FB's answers to all the questions people are posing contain things like "... currently ..." and "... at this time ...".

... then I’ll create a Facebook account.

People on the subreddit have mentioned making burner accounts. Only problem people have pointed out is that if FB feel you've got an account which is for this purpose, apparently they start asking for your phone number, passport, driving licence etc. for you to "prove" you are who you say you are, and insist you add those address details. They're probably going to get militant about this too, because they want Facebook Horizons to be a big deal and they're saying it's because they want people to be accountable for their actions, and they think people being "real people" on the platform will do that. I don't think it'll work and I also don't think it's a good idea - but that's their plan.

If a user gets banned for this, they might lose access to all their purchases.

[MartyG]

If a user gets banned for this, they might lose access to all their purchases.

It's definitely a concern, but I have doubts that'll happen - you start locking people out of their VR headsets, you're quickly going to kill your market share off of what is still a relatively small niche. This is especially true given that there are other XR2 chipset headsets coming out that would be happy to take your cast off customers.

[Asura]

It's definitely a concern, but I have doubts that'll happen - you start locking people out of their VR headsets, you're quickly going to kill your market share off of what is still a relatively small niche. This is especially true given that there are other XR2 chipset headsets coming out that would be happy to take your cast off customers.

True; but it's related to what I said above - which of those serves FB's business interests better? Selling the headset is already a loss, arguably. A user with a burner account who buys a headset probably nets FB relatively little in terms of what they actually want.

[MartyG]

It depends on what metrics they're basing success on - if it's just a matter of ad impressions and selling that ad space, does it really matter whether it's a ghost account or not? Those ads are still shown, they're still buying content on that account, so they're not throwaway. If you lock the accounts out, you're not going to re-coop the losses on the hardware sales.

[Brad]

[MENTION=42]MartyG[/MENTION] yeah you’re dead right re: the oculus standalone devices. I wasn’t really thinking about those but that’s where oculus is headed these days. A lot of rift owners feel abandoned in fact.

[MartyG]

They seem to mostly have that market to themselves at the moment, but I suspect the XR2 chipset will bring out a few other contenders. Not sure why they named it after a Fiesta though

[Asura]

Just saw this:

https://www.roadtovr.com/fake-facebook-account-oculus-headset-community-standards/

So yeah; it turns out that (1) users who violate community guidelines can be banned, which may cause them to lose access to their purchases on the headset, (2) Facebook VR Labs can give 30-day bans which may prevent you using the headset and (3) they regard using a burner account as a violation, so it could result in the above.

From the horse's mouth. Admittedly they keep using words like "may" and this could always change; but then Oculus categorically stated you'd never need to log in to FB to use an Oculus headset so they could just change anything after you've bought it.

Admittedly (other than the burner account thing) this is for egregious behaviour on the platform; so it'd be like repeatedly spouting racist abuse in Horizons or something, but it's still a concern that they can literally take your purchases away. It would make more sense if they just neutered the social functions; however if they did that, it would probably reinforce the distinction that there is a non-social side to the platform and a social side, and they're distinct, which is how the Quest already works prior to the switchover.

I sold my unit to CEX this week; not specifically because of the switchover but because the new one looks like a great upgrade, a wave of new headsets are on the way, and in advance of these announcements, CEX gave me an amazing price (basically what I paid for it). Headsets are always going to be getting better so it seemed like the right time to sell up and watch what emerges. I'm banking on a really good PSVR2.

[MartyG]

It's just to try and discourage people from doing it - I'd wager the chances of getting banned using a ghost account is slim to none. The amount of accounts on there spouting racist and incendiary stuff daily that still remain active shows it's more just about having the numbers on the system, so locking people out of their headsets for using ghost accounts will give them a PR nightmare.

Good call on getting your headset sold before today's announcement though - I don't get CEX's pricing half the time, it's all over the place.

[Brad]

I wouldn’t have a burner Facebook account. It’d be legit, I just wouldn’t use it for anything except logging on to the rift. I use a vpn for everything except gaming so good luck tying my usual online activities with my Facebook account. Of course AI and deep learning can already do this so whatever

[MartyG]

So Quest 2 confirmed at $299 with pre-orders opening today, released Oct 12th.

Pre-orders are live now - it's a direct $->£ so £299 in the UK for the 64GB, £399 for the 256GB model.

[MartyG]

Specs of the Quest 2

Screen: Fast-switch LCD, 1832x1920 per eye, up to 90Hz
Processor: Qualcomm Snapdragon XR2
RAM: 6GB
Storage: 64 or 256GB
Operating system: Quest software platform
Connectivity: Wifi 6, 3.5mm headphones socket, USB-C with Oculus Link, stereo speakers, microphone
Headset dimensions: 191.5 x 102 x 142.5mm
Headset weight: 503g
Controller dimensions: 90 x 120mm
Controller weight: 126g (without battery)

Good to see it's supporting Wifi 6, I did wonder if the XR2 chipset included that as it supports 5G and that does indeed appear to be the case. It should reduce latency if connecting to the PC wirelessly through the various apps (Virtual Deskop, ALVR etc).

Comment of the day on the device though ...

This just broadens the digital divide. How can Facebook make expensive products that poorer students, schools, and families can't afford? Why would a company actively oppress people like this?

Not sure if jk/srs.

[Asura]

Not sure if jk/srs.

Good job facebook is free*

->Open Spoiler<-

*to the detriment of, oh, **waves hands in the general direction of everything**