Virtual Reality

[Brad]

There's a steamvr for windowsmr adapter app. Ms will remove that as well.

The need for open source grows daily.

[Wools]

VR is so strange.

From my perspective, if you love Videogames and Electronic Entertainment (Yes, I’m going all Edge) then VR is truly as astonishing the first time you saw Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, Tomb Raider or Mario 64. It is astonishing how immersive it is.

But as it requires you to block yourself off from the entire world, the consumers maybe rightfully won’t use it. And unlike Model 1 Arcade Boards, the PlayStation console or the PC, Developers aren’t fully jumping in to make games for the gateman, they’re porting pre-existing games.

It feels like VR is in a catch 22 at the moment. I predict that either the new Apple headset will knock down some doors or a game will be made that’s so good and mass market, people will buy VR in their droves… Or if Apple VR fails to ignite and still games continue to not be released, VR will die a very slow death.

[wakka]

Yeah, it's frustrating. The demand just isn't there for it.

It kind of reminds me of videophones. They existed as far back as the 1920s (as payphones), and I remember seeing ones that could be bought in the US on Tomorrow's World in the 90s. But there was near-zero demand for them until they could be integrated into a product that people found indispensable.

I think we have gone about as far as we can go in terms of consumer demand with existing headset technology. The Quest 3 is a great product, it's great value, and it has a ton of games. It's hard to see anyone being more successful than it with a similar product.

I really think increased take-up of VR is waiting on a quantum leap forward in head-mounted technology that integrates more everyday communication type features into radically more convenient hardware with true transparency to the outside world (i.e. not mediated through cameras and screens a la Vision Pro).

I think that's a long way off though.

[Neon Ignition]

VR, for the most part is now firmly an enthusiast device. The thing with gaming is it's both huge and yet at the same time not as huge as the industry would have people believe. The world population is knocking past 8bn yet console sales have long peaked at around 250m total each gen. Companies find new ways to increase revenue and profits but can't grow the market. I can easily imagine that the 'gamers' within that number are actually quite a small figure. That 250m will be made up as well of many who own multiple machines so will be much smaller. VR is a special experience but as much as some devices matured into the right form after many years I don't think VR is going to be one of them. It's already decades old and no amount of tweaking is going to remove the practical barriers that exist around it. I also don't think Apple will make a single iota of impact on the market either, the current momentum behind it will die when Meta decides to move on to something else.

[wakka]

Yeah, it seems there's no real way to grow the headline figure of the total market for premium gaming. The PS2 is only now looking like it might be topped in total sales for the first time, and by a hair. Global population growth is mostly irrelevant though since the majority of it is happening outside of the 'global middle class' and in wealthy countries population growth is very slow or in outright decline (Japan).

[Asura]

My belief remains that, even as a VR enthusiast, it's a complex picture.

One of the things VR still hasn't managed to overcome is that, for many people, they play videogames to relax.

It's said that there are two kinds of entertainment; lean-forward and sit-back. The former is for things like Bloodborne where you need to play a really active role in the game, and failure is always an option. The latter is for games like, say, Uncharted, where the bulk of the game is pretty easy and relaxing, peppered with bits where you might lean forward. It's like the difference between vegging out and watching Iron Man 2 for the twelfth time vs. watching something more demanding, like a foreign arthouse film.

I would venture, though, that VR represents a third type of entertainment altogether, a more extreme kind of "lean-forward". You might call it "stand-up" or "be within" or something... The kind of entertainment you get from visiting a museum, or going on a hike, or going to the gym. It's like a much more active thing to do.

I probably use my VR kit more than most people here, and am a self-described enthusiast. But even I sometimes look at my headset over on charge, knowing I still haven't finished Asgard's Wrath 2, but still just boot up my TV and put on an episode of Lower Decks or something, because I just can't find the headspace and get-up-and-go to put on the headset.

VR is, in my opinion, engaging. It is not relaxing. And until it is, I think it's always going to remain a niche.

The Apple Vision Pro does not fix this. The Quest 3 does not fix this.

I feel that the closest device to fixing it that is presently on the market is the Xreal Air series of glasses. But there have been great steps forwards with "wave-guide" displays, some shown at CES this year, that are already looking to blow that out of the water. I personally feel that a Quest-like device, with a form factor closer to a slightly bulky pair of Wayfairer glasses, that allowed for the games and media experiences these devices have put forward...

I sometimes struggle to sleep. To deal with it, I listen to things like white noise and sleepcast-style streams via a pair of headphones. These things exist for VR headsets but like **** am I going to wear a Quest 3 in bed. But a glasses form-factor? I can totally see that.

[wakka]

Insightful post!

Do you have any examples of wave guide technology that I could look at?

[Neon Ignition]

And a bonus:

[Asura]

Insightful post!

Do you have any examples of wave guide technology that I could look at?

There were some at CES this year:

https://youtu.be/xELYTllVDXI?si=2AJecIrjxrWMLJyh&t=1125

[nonny]

My belief remains that, even as a VR enthusiast, it's a complex picture.

One of the things VR still hasn't managed to overcome is that, for many people, they play videogames to relax.

It's said that there are two kinds of entertainment; lean-forward and sit-back. The former is for things like Bloodborne where you need to play a really active role in the game, and failure is always an option. The latter is for games like, say, Uncharted, where the bulk of the game is pretty easy and relaxing, peppered with bits where you might lean forward. It's like the difference between vegging out and watching Iron Man 2 for the twelfth time vs. watching something more demanding, like a foreign arthouse film.

I would venture, though, that VR represents a third type of entertainment altogether, a more extreme kind of "lean-forward". You might call it "stand-up" or "be within" or something... The kind of entertainment you get from visiting a museum, or going on a hike, or going to the gym. It's like a much more active thing to do.

I probably use my VR kit more than most people here, and am a self-described enthusiast. But even I sometimes look at my headset over on charge, knowing I still haven't finished Asgard's Wrath 2, but still just boot up my TV and put on an episode of Lower Decks or something, because I just can't find the headspace and get-up-and-go to put on the headset.

VR is, in my opinion, engaging. It is not relaxing. And until it is, I think it's always going to remain a niche.

The Apple Vision Pro does not fix this. The Quest 3 does not fix this.

I feel that the closest device to fixing it that is presently on the market is the Xreal Air series of glasses. But there have been great steps forwards with "wave-guide" displays, some shown at CES this year, that are already looking to blow that out of the water. I personally feel that a Quest-like device, with a form factor closer to a slightly bulky pair of Wayfairer glasses, that allowed for the games and media experiences these devices have put forward...

I sometimes struggle to sleep. To deal with it, I listen to things like white noise and sleepcast-style streams via a pair of headphones. These things exist for VR headsets but like **** am I going to wear a Quest 3 in bed. But a glasses form-factor? I can totally see that.

This is absolutely nail on the head for me. I've not ventured into VR myself and I'm more intrigued by every new step in technology watching from the sidelines.

I just can't find myself having the energy to use it all the time for the reasons you've explained so well.

Funny enough I've been keeping an eye on the Xreal glasses, both the 2 pro and ultra versions for travel and I've a work colleague who uses a set of the original Nreal ones in work for multi monitor setup.

They're quite impressive, not quite vr but more virtual screen but what impressed me most is just how light and conventional they are in aesthetics.

I can definitely see me using them a lot and I see them as sort of a step down in augmented reality technology. Which makes me think this whole market is evolving into several different classes now.

[Neon Ignition]

That's definitely a big factor, thanks to the recent releases there's now a backlog of notable VR games I need to play but there's having the motivation to game and then there's having the motivation to VR game. It's excellent as an experience every time but the lack of passiveness to it is a put off at times.

[Brad]

The effort to strap into VR is massive for me. I really only play DCS and F1 in it but for DCS, unless I'm playing with my mate or practicing air to air refuelling (massively easier in VR) then I'll just use trackIR. I don't game to relax, I game to escape and prefer the intensity of VR but even so, apathy inevitably wins and I just game on a monitor. I played hellblade recently and it's soooooo immersive in VR, really amazing. Still played it flat though. I only play F1 in VR because I have a cockpit and wheel setup and don't physically have a monitor in front of me so I'm forced to play VR or not at all.

I think if there were glasses, even big slightly heavy glasses, that could flit between vr and see through modes at the press of a button then I'd probably use VR more.

[MartyG]

Can't say I've ever found it much of an effort, and Quest 3 takes seconds to turn on and start using.

Whether it's engaging or relaxing very much depends on what you're using the headset for - watching movies in virtual cinema I find massively relaxing, and when I'm playing games like Project Cars, Automobilista it's engaging enough to forget you're wearing a headset.

I use my headset at least once a week and have been for ages - I suspect this is not especially typical though; I can't imagine most people own eight different headsets.

[wakka]

It's really interesting to hear how people say that VR can feel like an effort to use.

I think one of the other challenges for it as a medium is the fact that for most part it's totally solitary. The latest ESA data shows that the average age of gamers is now 35 to 44. That is a massive, massive change from previous decades, and the shift upwards in average age doesn't seem to be slowing down.

People 35 to 44 often tend to be at the busiest point in their lives, with careers and young children often absorbing a lot of their time. It's one reason why I think Sony's emphasis on accessible action adventures has been so effective for them. It's also probably a reason why VR has struggled to take off, since a totally immersive experience that cuts you off from the outside world isn't necessarily what this group is looking for.

[Lebowski]

i have to push the sofa back and make sure the area is clear before playing, I'd agree time and tiredness are massive deciding factors on whether i want to play VR it feels more like an event for me. A lot of vr games are quite physical things too like pistol whip and beat sabre can give you a pretty good aerobic workout. Though there are things that are quite relaxing and chilled, like puzzling places, Tetris effect or Kayak vr mirage, that are all played sitting down.