Has "Indie" ruined gaming?

[Pikate]

I was just reading something about Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo's relationships with indie devs and I can't decide if it's a good thing.

Has "indie" really delivered? On the consoles "Indie" seems to mostly mean retro/2D platformer and for the one or two successes we see a year (Guacamelee!, Shovel Knight, etc...) there are dozens and dozens of subpar games that sell based on cheap gimmicks or just simply lack the sheen/depth of a proper publisher backed title. The Nintendo eShop for example is full of half-baked rubbish I wouldn't touch with a Virtual Boy. Certainly nothing that's as good as Rayman Origins/Legends or even NSMBU.

While Nintendo are forced to make DKC, Kirby and Mario because their consoles sell on nostalgia for those franchises I do wonder is the indie scene giving the other publishers carte blanche to just make more and more big, bombastic, blockbusters, titles like FPSs and racing games that are "safe" because they see everything else covered by indie, that's their variety, that's their quirkiness, that's the risky stuff.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft are to thank/blame for taking "Indie" mainstream with Super Meat Boy, Braid, Limbo, Fez etc but at that time and since they've not created any new franchises really and what were Sony doing while MS courted the Indie devs? They made LittleBigPlanet and Uncharted and a bunch of other new, innovative franchises before scaling back that innovation to court the indie darlings too.

Maybe like usual I'm just talking rubbish (that's why I thought I'd throw it for discussion) but is indie saturating the market for the kind of games we here all seem to love, the old school and the none blockbusters? Is Indie the reason things like Bayonetta and Rayman Legends "flop"? Since most of you are more experienced/knowledgeable gamers than myself I'd love to hear some thoughts/insights...

[Tobal]

Indie's have replaced the B tier games, which have become a few set niches that sell enough to make another like PES, dynasty warriors and EDF. On the ps4 side for me its all been pretty dull over the last year, I wouldn't call I single one of the new indie games out better then a 5/10 effort, most looking like ****ty phone port games, with lazy art and animation I've seen done better on a amiga500.

I think I've only played Dead Nation through to completion, but it got a real chore towards the end and nothing that would make a Summer Arcade list of yesteryear.

[Pikate]

Indie's have replaced the B tier games.

That's the nail on the head!

I suppose I was lamenting the lack of the new Okamis and Jet Set Radios of the world but I suppose those were B-tier and now we just see the odd thing like Mirror's Edge that EA hope can become an A-tier franchise or Bayonetta (anything by Platinum Games really) which is pushed through by the sheer passion of the dev's and a bit of luck with a publisher... Same would apply to Micheal Ansel and his Rayman games and Tim Schafer and co. at Double Fine one suspects.

Valve are another example, they were on a role creatively, they made the definitive B-lister, Portal and bought that to consoles, then just focused on Steam as a platform (very indie centric now) and haven't really done much in terms of consoles beyond Portal 2 which was probably A-list in the end.

Well done, very astute, Mr. Tobal.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not sure the existence of indies is causing that. I think it was happening anyway. The indies have been a positive force by at least injecting some variety into things. Some of my most interesting game experiences recently have been from those indies - Fez, Proteus, others I can't remember because my memory is generally rubbish.

To blame them for the decline in more interesting games from mainstream devs doesn't quite seem fair. The games industry has been changing and they've been taking less risks. That would have happened with or without the indies. You can hardly blame the maker of Proteus for Valve doing seemingly nothing for years.

I think your point about what we've arrived at is correct but I completely disagree that indies ruined gaming. If anything, they might save it.

[EvilBoris]

Indie developers are just smaller teams, as certain teams become more successful they will grow and so will the scale of their games.
Compare the indie games of 2014 to the indie games of 2008

2014

2008

That's not just technology, that's tools and experience and support that is enabling that to happen.

[Golgo]

The only indie that matters is Llamasoft, and why the hell - Jeff - don't you put that bloody Oculus Rift down and get on with TxK PS4? Apart from that I don't know what indie gaming is anymore or where to find it. It's just a tiny bunch of auteur darlings and well-established franchises that are now rolling in cash, no?

[Colin]

Indie games are like a bag of revels, but a bag of revels 95% made up of those vomit inducing coffee ones. It's always a relief when you get the chocolate one instead, but it doesn't happen often enough. Or something.

[fishbowlhead]

For the small teams, or individuals, psn, xbl and nintendo online have done wonders for these smaller guys that could never of dreamed of making games 5-8 years ago, personally I think it's a great thing.

[EvilBoris]

Indie games are like a bag of revels, but a bag of revels 95% made up of those vomit inducing coffee ones. It's always a relief when you get the chocolate one instead, but it doesn't happen often enough. Or something.

I don't mean to derail, but this popped into my head

[Colin]

****ing brilliant.

[baad bwoy]

I like the coffee flavour Revel, though wish they would stop the hard toffee Revels, eurkh

[Golgo]

Hehe! I like the toffees.

To be less flippant, Machinarium and Braid and Cave Story and Fez (although I have to admit I cheated really horribly on that with a guide) were awesome, easily as good as some of the best 'proper' big budget games I've ever played. I'm not seeing or hearing much about this level of quality and imagination from indies recently, though? Seems to be a lot of semi-ironic cannibalizing of old genres and sprites going on. Maybe No Man's Sky will do something exciting, or Jonathan Blow's The Witness, if he ever stops introspecting long enough to finish it.

[Brad]

Every accusation levelled at indie games applies to the massive publisher backed ones too. Most video games these days are bloody awful. At least the indie ones aren't usually ?40+

Other than that I'd say dogg thang is the one who hit the nail on the head.

[eastyy]

all i want is just get rid of those pixel sprite games i just find a lot of them really lazy and do not have there own aesthetic and not really true to the retro spirit (many games look worse then games i have seen in 16 bit 8 bit era) i did like shovel knight though as i felt that had the spirit of a nes game

[EvilBoris]

AAA Indie Developer Ninja Theory!