Official Edge Issue 132 Thread

[Molloy]

Good humour is often not inclusive. The same goes for computer games. Part of the satisfaction one gains from gaming is knowing/thinking you can do things other people can't. Of course with the decline of arcades there are few people to showboat to these days.

Part of the reason I've always enjoyed gaming is the challenge. If you can't fail then where's the thrill in winning? Sadly that style of gaming went out of fasion a long time ago.

[Ady]

I thought I'd resurrect this, having fully read and digested this issue over Christmas.

If any kind of days are numbered then, it is my Edge-buying days (if this issue is an indication of things to come).

Remember the Bored Gamers issue? Well this must be its evill twin.

OK, so the noble Edge wants to champion the potential of mainstream gaming - fair enough. Contrary to popular belief, not every dedicated gamer is against massmarket penetration.

Karaoke-style games to appeal to teenage girls, Sky set top box games etc etc... it's all good as far as I'm concerened - and as far as Edge is concerned too, it seems. Why, oh why then does the magazine have to be so obnoxious in making its point?

As I said earlier, it's as if they wanted to wind up 'hardcores' for sport; apparently, anyone who think games should present a competent challenge is an 'idiot' (namecalling - what a mature stance for a magazine like Edge to take ), apparently everyone who reads thier maagzine is blinkered, and hates the idea of mass appeal games (see the 'Arcade Perfect' artlce where Edge puts words in its readers mouths and then calls them more names). Oh, and is it not grand of Edge to condescendingly invite me to "step back for a moment" as it proceeds to lecture me about the purpose of gaming?

Again, the core issues raised were sound, the problem was in their presentation. In this issue, Edge has created a grossly generalised straw man out of the 'hardcore gamer' and uses its position to beat it mercilessly. It comes across as rude and patronising and regardless of whether the cap fits or not, if you consider yourself a dedicated player, then Edge 132 is basically telling you to "**** off".

If this apparent new direction the reason the previous editorial team left, then fair play to them. I hope Tony Mott's re-appointment does some good, because the present situation stinks.

So am I the only one who found Edge's tone in 132 offensive?

[Papercut]

So am I the only one who found Edge's tone in 132 offensive?

No, I fully agree with the points you've made.

The faults with Edge have been so apparent for so long, they barely register with me any more.

I really don't understand who they are trying to ingratiate themselves with, as they continually snipe at dedicated/committed/hardcore/enthusiast* gamers. I imagine they're trying to impress devcos and publishers, but surely they are made up of the same sort of individuals that Edge is taking a 'controversial' (read: tedious) stance against.

When will they realise that the targets of their pointless anti-hardcore tirade, are in fact themselves, their readership and the industry itself? The people that pay their bills. When will they realise that by drawing such a sharp comparison between hardcore and casual, they are deepening the very differences they claim to want rid of?

It is a pity, because when Edge get off their ill-deserved high horse then sometimes enthusiastic, well written articles sneak through.

The hypocrisies mount, the readership declines, and Edge's editorial stance continues regardless. Magic.

* delete as applicable.

[Sketcz]

So am I the only one who found Edge's tone in 132 offensive?

NO Ady!
Ive found them offensive for the past few months, in fact for nearly the whole of my subscription, especially those Redeye rants, and yes, I was so pissed off, I wrote complaints to Future, bemoaning the fact that I had to pay for such crap, and then they insult serious gamers, they even passed on my emails to Sanchez himself.
Damn they make me angry.

<ahem>

But thankfully, my sub ran out before I got this issue, and good thing too, since Id probably go off on a long whining tangent, possibly for months.

Anyway, seeing as youve read it, could you please fill me on what Redeye was ranting about, living on the mainland, I dont have access to the mag anymore.

Anyway, I have developed a personal hatred for them, and feel no sorrow for their demise, let them burn I say.

opps... am I lowering myself to their level by ranting? Oh well, too bad.

[gozaimas]

So am I the only one who found Edge's tone in 132 offensive?

Yes Ady!

Surely you mean "No Ady!"

especially those Redeye rants, and yes, I was so pissed off, I wrote complaints to Future, bemoaning the fact that I had to pay for such crap, and then they insult serious gamers, they even passed on my emails to Sanchez himself.
Damn they make me angry.

redeye isn't edge. He was an independant voice whose opinions were separate to the magazine's (as was always made clear at the end of each article). His purpose was surely to offer an alternative view of issues in a leftfield, if self-righteous, way in order to provoke discussion. For me, at least, Redeye's column was never about balance but something altogether different.

A quick point as I have neither the time nor inclination to bloody my hands these days: Edge never created the divide between the hardcore and casual gamers. They have simply commented on divisions that already exist, and that are progressivly becoming more distinct. Take the particular redeye article out of the mix (as you should) and edge have balanced coverage.

The point of the hardcore issue (E122) was not to tirade against that particular vociferous demographic, despite some people's best attempts to rewrite history. It was rather a discussion of the fact that the hardcore demograhic is getting bored with videogames. its getting harder to get a fix and the articles within carefully examined those points. This is a completely different subject to the one you are misquoting. That issue even featured a top 50 hardcore games article- hardly something a magazine campaigning against the niche would do.

I am sure that edge is well aware its readership are mainly hardcore gamers. This is reflected in the fact that they cover extremely niche titles (such as Disgaea, Hajime no ippo, Dodonpachi daioujou, DDR extreme to name four distinct genres) often long before dedicated hardcore sites such as NTSC do. Not a pop at NTSC you understand- merely a point so often forgotten in these petty and pointless discussions.

Similarly an eight page disection of the Neo-geo is hardly the act of a publiscation turning its back on hardcore gaming (note: edge was the first mag to do this as Games TM wasn't even out at that point). It seems to me that the editorial (i.e. not redeye) negative tones are extremely rare and, when they do surface, campaing against a particular outlook rather than category of gaming. This is backed up by the content of their features and reviews which frequently trail blaze and examine issues and titles of particular interest to "hardcore" gamers.

[Ady]

The point of the hardcore issue was not to tirade against that demographic, despite some people's best attempts to rewrite history. It was rather a discussion of the fact that the hardcore demograhic is getting bored with videogames.

I don't think anyone ever said that. I mentioned that issue for the very reason you mention above; it was well balanced and objective and almost the polar opposite to the new issue.

I am sure that edge is well aware its readership are mainly hardcore gamers. this is reflected in the fact that they cover extremely niche titles (such as Disgaea, Hajime no ippo, Dodonpachi daioujou, DDR extreme to name four distinct genres) often long before dedicated hardcore sites such as NTSC do. Not a pop at NTSC you understand- merely a point so often forgotten in these petty and pointless discussions.

Have you read the new issue of Edge? It doesn't sound like you have...

[gozaimas]

I have read it.

The first editorial is written from the perspective of a hardcore gamer: describing the thought of the mainstream "invading" our hobby as "unsettling" but balancing this with the point that its necessary as a driving force if we (presumably the hardcore) are to fully enjoy the potential gaming offers.

I see previews on diverse games- some extremely mainstream (James Bond) to some extremely niche (the first (p)review of Mojiribon I've seen)

The second key mainstream editorial (Future Schlock ) before the reviews continues the theme from the magazine's entry concluding "The mainstream isn't the Hardcore's enemy, it's its saviour and the faster it grows the safer the things we cherish about gaming become".

It claims that the more mainstream gaming becomes the more elements such as Tekki controllers etc we (the hardcore) can enjoy.

The reviews section then shows me the first UK review of FF X-2 i've read. Gotcha force, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, In memoriam and DDR extreme are all also covered when they haven't been in any other UK multiformat I've seen yet. The scores are irrelevant because the fact the games are covered demonstrates the point.

It all seems very balanced to my eyes: whatever you think of their arguments, I certainly haven't been patronised.

[_y_]

Have Edge not previously endeavoured to make a distinction between dedicated gaming enthusiasts (the likes of which produce fanzines, run websites like NTSC, frequent forums to engage in high(er)-level discussion about their hobby) and "hardcore" gamers (mostly petulant teens with blinkered views, insular, wary of outsiders and intent on keeping them on the outside - and a telling obsession with using an epithet usually reserved for pornography to describe themselves)?

Not read the issues in question, just a query on semantics; in what way are Edge using the term "hardcore gamer" in these instances?

[Ady]

I see previews on diverse games- some extremely mainstream (James Bond) to some extremely niche (the first (p)review of Mojiribon I've seen)

The second key mainstream editorial (Future Schlock ) before the reviews continues the theme from the magazine's entry concluding "The mainstream isn't the Hardcore's enemy, it's its saviour and the faster it grows the safer the things we cherish about gaming become".

It claims that the more mainstream gaming becomes the more elements such as Tekki controllers etc we (the hardcore) can enjoy.

Yes, I got that. I can read thank you very much.

The reviews section then shows me the first UK review of FF X-2 i've read. Gotcha force, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, In memoriam and DDR extreme are all also covered when they haven't been in any other UK multiformat I've seen yet. The scores are irrelevant because the fact the games are covered demonstrates the point.

I never said anything about scores.

It all seems very balanced to my eyes: whatever you think of their arguments, I certainly haven't been patronised.

Good for you. I felt the overall tone of the issue was a negative one for the reasons I've already mentioned previously. And _y_, Edge has previously made such distinctions in the past but didn't here. It tarred all with the same brush.

[innovator]

The Mario & Luigi score is 2 points too low.

[Crispin]

Actually I rather liked Edge this month. And the difficulty curve article? Spot on. I'm talking about the "chucking players out of the level and back to the Hub world" and endless restarts of huge section.

Having played one hell of a lot of Billy Hatcher and Super Mario Sunshine, these things really do grate. Especially with Billy Hatcher - I don't want to be kicked out to the start menu all over again, just because I lost several lives. Many of which were due to buggy rails and faulty collision detection systems. And if you've invested 20 minutes in finding all the chickens or killing 100 crows, dying and having a game over on your way to collect a Rooster emblem halfway across the map, is not the way to please a gamer. At least SMS usually gave you the Shine as soon as you had completed it.

Prince of Persia's final platforming section, the long winded objectives on Billy Hatcher and having to continually try to reach the secret level entrances in SMS (especially Noki Bay) were all excellent ways to piss me off.

Oh and the whole combat section of PoP - to die on the last enemy, only to have to kill them all twenty or thirty of them again is annoying. And having to kill the same enemies over and over again in the platforming?

No, EDGE were spot on in that article.

My Mother made me promise not to take any notice of EDGE after we both noted I had wasted nearly a hundred pounds on buying games solely because they said they were brill 8ish or 9ish. Indeed, with KoTOR, VJ and PoP added to Metroid, LTTP and many others, I realise their reviews have no meaning to me. We expect different things. Their reviews are good for some people, but anathema to me.

Their codeshop features as always are very good. So is the entire frontend. I've found myself agreeing with Biffo many, many times. Poole is usually superb, ignoring the recent comic article. Too many difficult words, but comics are clearly a love of his, so I can't blame him. Nagoshi's articles, whilst usually totally irrelevant do seem to show a worrying trend.

Whenever Sega is in ****, Nagoshi-san writes about drinking.

RedEye. Ah, yes. Half the time I don't get what he is on about. I got the CV&G and internet forum rumour fun-poking. But I can't remember what his last article was about. Unless that was it, and I can't remember the one from the robots Issue (which was superb). Or I forgot to read it.

I did purchase an issue of Games TM, but I didn't really like it. The videogame maths thing is a CV&G staple (which I read once, *shudders), and I realised that their reviews weren't meant for me either. Mind you, to be fair, they were very well written reviews. They had some good interviews. I won't say anything else, as they are doing a marvellous job, and I hate giving criticism.

So, the point of this long rant?

Reviews are meaningless. Nagoshi-san likes drink. And Mr. Rose and Mr. Poole should be knighted for services to people like me, helping them realise that they aren't insane for hating KoTOR.

[Ady]

Oh and the whole combat section of PoP - to die on the last enemy, only to have to kill them all twenty or thirty of them again is annoying. And having to kill the same enemies over and over again in the platforming?

Whinge, whinge, whinge.

Lightweight.

The combat in PoP is superb, IMO.

You don't care if it's occasionally tricky because it's so fun!

[Crispin]

Oh and the whole combat section of PoP - to die on the last enemy, only to have to kill them all twenty or thirty of them again is annoying. And having to kill the same enemies over and over again in the platforming?

Whinge, whinge, whinge.

Lightweight.

The combat in PoP is superb, IMO.

You don't care if it's occasionally tricky because it's so fun!

Ay! But it grated so much. We had a beautiful platform game. Sticking combat in it is just unnecessary. I'd rather have more devious rooms, full of traps and wall jumps. The camera for combat was a bit rubbish, the dagger took too long to use (leaving you open to attack), and if you try to run away for a breather or to heal yourself (and sometimes you started very low on health), the monsters respawn around you. No time for a tactical withdrawal. And having to look after Farah was annoying.

It was such an amazing platform game. But God, someone mod the Xbox version so it doesn't include any combat.

[TheShend]

I just finished reading the Karaoke article.

Now, there was a party saturday gone which had Karaoke. Someone put my name down to do Manic Monday. Unfortunatly i was too merry to put up any resistance. Flat? You could put a spirit level to my performance i was that bad! But i got up three more times after that.

So i discover humiliating yourself can be quite fun. Now, in this Singstar game, if i were to play it, would fail miserably. As i can't sing for toffee. But it makes me more entertaining for it. As judged by the defeaning laughter that accompanied my performance rather than the applause better singers got.

So i reckon this game should really cater for the polar opposite of those who can sing (or think they can) i.e. the 'hardcore' as i reckon it's more fun.

[Ady]

It was such an amazing platform game. But God, someone mod the Xbox version so it doesn't include any combat.

I don't think I'd enjoy the combat using the X-Box controller, tbh.