Xbox - Series S/X: Thread 01

[Brad]

Doubt I’ll even buy a next gen system but I hope MS do something to stir things up a bit. Buying a One X was my stupidest decision last year, just so I could have the best looking version of red dead, that I didn’t even finish. Crackdown 3 is pants, can’t get back into halo, forza is amazing but I don’t like driving games. All my own fault really lol.

I think I’m going to give cuphead a go though because I hear that’s rather special and I think is exclusive.

[Team Andromeda]

It's going the way of the PSP, which sold very well, and was only a failure in the context of outselling the DS, but is often referred to as an utter failure in terms of sales.

So no different from the OG Xbox then, which was comprehensively outsold by the PS2 (it wasn't even close) and comes in at a distance 2nd place, I'm not even classing the Switch as a console as its quite clear it's the sequel to the 3DS in all but name (more so now that support support for the unit as dried up in typical Nintendo fashion).

MS just needs to ensure it gets the spec's right, this gen that was it's biggest cock up, most other mistakes you can clear up latter (no launch is perfect) but if you get the Hardware wrong, you're stuck with it for years.

In all fairness it was never confirmed for Xbox One.

I don't buy that for one second myself. 343 haven't been spending the last 4 years developing a game for next gen and I can't see how MS was showing off a glimpse of the future SONY style with Halo infinite showing last year, I bet that footage was taken from the game running on a One X development kit.

I really want/like to see the game come out for both the One and the next Box, sort of like how Half Life II came out of the XBox at the end of its life and a hugly upgraded one came out for the 360

[wakka]

Switch is deffo a console by any measure.

[Digfox]

MS just needs to ensure it gets the spec's right, this gen that was it's biggest cock up

I agree on this. I think it's an oft forgotten fact that the Xbox One was underpowered in comparison to the PS4. And that perception very quickly spread. For example, I remember on forums within the first year people asking whether they needed a 1080p TV for Xbox One. And the response would be something silly like; 'don't worry Xbox One can't do 1080p either'.

I personally think that MS have to be the same or more powerful than Sony's hardware to have any chance or reclaiming number one in markets where they can (i.e. NA, UK).

I don't buy that for one second myself. 343 haven't been spending the last 4 years developing a game for next gen

Tbf [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION] is right, no release date and platform was ever announced. Also with Halo 5 being released in late 2015 343i probably have only been working on this for 3 years, with side projects such as Halo Wars 2 collaboration with CA, repairing MCC pulling at a small number of resources. If the series is taking a new turn or going all looter shooter, Destiny online style, then it is believable that that will take more development time or resources.

Again if that's what they do and intend for Halo Infinite to be a launch game, that makes complete sense.

Switch is deffo a console by any measure.

I assume [MENTION=3542]Team Andromeda[/MENTION] means it's a handheld only in his opinion rather than a home console. But personally I would agree with the Wikipedia classification that it's a 'hybrid console' and certainly not just a successor to Nintendo's portable machines. Either way the Switch does and can play games on a TV as per a home console.

[Team Andromeda]

I agree on this. I think it's an oft forgotten fact that the Xbox One was underpowered in comparison to the PS4. And that perception very quickly spread. For example, I remember on forums within the first year people asking whether they needed a 1080p TV for Xbox One. And the response would be something silly like; [I]'don't worry Xbox One can't do 1080p either'

Its hurt XBox imagine and worse still MS hampered the already underpowered GPU with reserving 20% of the GPU for Kinect too, making an underpowered GPU even less able to compete with the PS4 GPU Then to make matters worse the development tools were said to be worse than that of the PS4.

MS needs to make sure that doesn't happen next gen and I don't see the One X team or Phil allowing those cock's up to be made again.

Tbf EvilBoris is right, no release date and platform was ever announced.

Factually of course. But I don't see 343 were given the mandate of making a next-gen game 4 years ago, or that when MS were showing off Halo Infinite at last years E3 It was in fact MS showing off the 1st game running on their next-gen hardware.

The 343 Team is massive with some 500 staff and are more than able to work on side projects as well as developing its own game too. I would like to see them send off the One X with Halo and then look to released super enhanced game ready for the launch of the next gen. Sort of like having a minimum spec and recommended spec of the same game

not just a successor to Nintendo's portable machines.

If Nintendo's commitment hasn't dried up on the 3DS I might be inclined to agree with you, But like one saw with the DS, which was never meant to be a replacement to the GBA It turned out that was the case Going forward I doubt if we'll ever see a proper console from Nintendo game

I can play games on the TV from my Nomad and on my PSP but to me, they'll always be handhelds.

[Digfox]

Factually of course. But I don't see 343 were given the mandate of making a next-gen game 4 years ago, or that when MS were showing off Halo Infinite at last years E3 It was in fact MS showing off the 1st game running on their next-gen hardware.

The 343 Team is massive with some 500 staff and are more than able to work on side projects as well as developing its own game too. I would like to see them send off the One X with Halo and then look to released super enhanced game ready for the launch of the next gen. Sort of like having a minimum spec and recommended spec of the same game

343i will have seen the roadmap for new hardware, and whilst it might have been a change someone along the line, it is quite believable the game is being prioritised to be a next gen release. My point is that 343i aren't big enough to have been working on two triple AAA projects and therefore almost certainly weren't working on Halo Infinite 4 years ago. Soon after Halo 5 released 3 years ago at best.

If Nintendo's commitment hasn't dried up on the 3DS I might be inclined to agree with you, But like one saw with the DS, which was never meant to be a replacement to the GBA It turned out that was the case Going forward I doubt if we'll ever see a proper console from Nintendo game

I can play games on the TV from my Nomad and on my PSP but to me, they'll always be handhelds.

Whether the DS was different or not, it was still a handheld. I think the Switch includes everything in the box along with the ability to run in a different powerstate that make it a hybrid rather than a handheld in the same vein as your aforementioned examples. But this is semantics. It's still a competitor to Xbox One and outselling it. And that ain't because 'it's just a handheld'.

[nonny]

It's going the way of the PSP, which sold very well, and was only a failure in the context of outselling the DS, but is often referred to as an utter failure in terms of sales.

I think you're right but I don't think it'll be a fast demise. It really depends on what MS does at E3 and for the rest of this year. It they price it right with say a 12 month game pass it'll shift a few units.

[Neon Ignition]

Xbox: I'd be more inclined to think of the XBO as a failure and I think it goes far beyond that initial reveal now. The system has been crippled by a chronic lack of market interest building first line software. Their output has either just largely pleased their core or failed to have an impact. The XBX is a great machine and hopefully a strong indicator as to the quality of hardware they'll make next time but made close to zilch impact on the systems fortunes and if the occasional update on the XB's global sales are accurate the system has close to stalled globally. Gears, Halo etc are not the power brands they once were either, enough popularity to continue with as key releases but too long in the tooth to rely on to shift hardware at the rates MS needs.

Upcoming Games: This year will end up relying on Gears of War 5 and Forza Motorport 8 with a side dish of Battletoads. Next year will end up being focused on the next Xbox system which will near certainly rest on Halo: Infinite and Forza Horizon 5 but I would fully go in expecting both of them to be cross-gen releases. MS's studio expansions show they're finally clear they need a content focus but MS broadly sucks at fostering successful new IP these days and these studios will likely not bear meaningful fruit till the next systems are bedding in. If MS truly is planning something to make its games available to Switch owners, that's likely worth much more to them than getting games on its own Xbox system at this point.

Failure: Expanding on the first point above, the XBO has been... I want to try and avoid saying catastrophic in terms of how much of a failure it's been but it's tempting. I think it's important to consider the factors with XBO that go beyond that unveiling. The system isn't really comparable to the likes of the original XB or PSP etc as those systems represented a first in line for their companies, a foot in the door intended for bigger success and they worked in those roles for the most part. The 360 built on that foundation throughout its life and left MS well positioned but far too dependent on too few a number of markets support. With the 360 though, as much of a hit as it was, it cannot be understated how much the failure of the PS3's launch factored into that success also. There's good reason MS lost ground slowly over that generation and once again came last place to the Wii and PS3 despite the good figures. To fall back to half your figures with almost zero momentum leading into another generation is nothing short of a disaster and it's little surprise that MS isn't just planning a restart (having previously touted the XBO brand being ongoing) but also potentially stepping away from the need for XB consoles.

Power: If MS launches with the most powerful console aka XBX2 (and this feeds into the above point) it'll undoubtedly be a sexy piece of kit. But short of a disaster on Sony's end Microsoft will get their asses handed to them every which way they can be by Nintendo and Sony. Here's the crux of the problem for MS, they were popular once in America and the UK. They need a major advantage over Sony to win back that level of support and the wider support they need and they've never accomplished that and... having the most powerful console won't achieve that for them either. It didn't work as a strategy for the third generation race, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth or the seventh and though it helped Sony a little it would be selling the PS4 short by continents of miles to think it's what is solely responsible for their victory this gen too. It's a great Day One bullet point but it doesn't decide successes from failures so MS should be cautious of how far they rely on this angle.

Switch: I side with it being a portable console. Though Nintendo's dedicated handhelds are likely over now and both home and handheld arms merged (one day we might see the fruits of that) the system is a great portable console... but sucks by handheld measures unless power is the only consideration.

[Team Andromeda]

343i will have seen the roadmap for new hardware, and whilst it might have been a change someone along the line, it is quite believable the game is being prioritised to be a next gen release. My point is that 343i aren't big enough to have been working on two triple AAA projects and therefore almost certainly weren't working on Halo Infinite 4 years ago. Soon after Halo 5 released 3 years ago at best.

500 staff is huge and more than big enough, to have two lines, not that I want the team to work on 2 different games, but rather like the Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 4 teams, make the same game for both the base and then One X hardware.

Have Halo Infinite One X version for this year (given for most of the game's development would have been made in mind for the One) and then go to town with a super version ready for launch of the new system

Whether the DS was different or not, it was still a handheld.

That wasn't quite my point. Nintendo made out the DS wasn't a successor to the GBA and wouldn't replace it. When despite the nice words and talk, Nintendo dropped it like a stone. Pretty much the same is happing with the 3DS. What In-House games do Nintendo show off the system these days?

People can class the Switch as a console, to me it's a Tablet and Nintendo's follow up to the 3DS.

[Digfox]

500 staff is huge and more than big enough, to have two lines, not that I want the team to work on 2 different games, but rather like the Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 4 teams, make the same game for both the base and then One X hardware.

It's said to be near 450. And to be fair that may or may not be large enough depending on the type of game Halo I. might be and other projects. Games like Destiny and The Division have chewed through 3 times that number of employees although have been up against tighter deadlines.

But to go back to your point, that you believe they have been working on this for 4 years. Do I think 343i were working on this back in Feb 2015 when they they still had nearly a year of Halo 5 development left? No I don't.

That wasn't quite my point. Nintendo made out the DS wasn't a successor to the GBA and wouldn't replace it. When despite the nice words and talk, Nintendo dropped it like a stone. Pretty much the same is happing with the 3DS. What In-House games do Nintendo show off the system these days?

People can class the Switch as a console, to me it's a Tablet and Nintendo's follow up to the 3DS.

Probably where your definitions aren't the same as other peoples. The Switch is absolutely a console, but the larger debate that will probably rage over time is rather whether it is a handheld video game console or home console, imo.

Personally I'd defer to the Wikipedia opening sentence as to what it is:
The Nintendo Switch,[b] commonly abbreviated as the Switch, is a video game console developed by Nintendo and was released on March 3, 2017. It is a hybrid console that can be used in both stationary and portable settings.

The whole history of Nintendo and it's pillar PR, just falls into the 'talk is cheap' category for me.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Xbox: I'd be more inclined to think of the XBO as a failure and I think it goes far beyond that initial reveal now. The system has been crippled by a chronic lack of market interest building first line software. Their output has either just largely pleased their core or failed to have an impact. The XBX is a great machine and hopefully a strong indicator as to the quality of hardware they'll make next time but made close to zilch impact on the systems fortunes and if the occasional update on the XB's global sales are accurate the system has close to stalled globally. Gears, Halo etc are not the power brands they once were either, enough popularity to continue with as key releases but too long in the tooth to rely on to shift hardware at the rates MS needs.

Upcoming Games: This year will end up relying on Gears of War 5 and Forza Motorport 8 with a side dish of Battletoads. Next year will end up being focused on the next Xbox system which will near certainly rest on Halo: Infinite and Forza Horizon 5 but I would fully go in expecting both of them to be cross-gen releases. MS's studio expansions show they're finally clear they need a content focus but MS broadly sucks at fostering successful new IP these days and these studios will likely not bear meaningful fruit till the next systems are bedding in. If MS truly is planning something to make its games available to Switch owners, that's likely worth much more to them than getting games on its own Xbox system at this point.

Failure: Expanding on the first point above, the XBO has been... I want to try and avoid saying catastrophic in terms of how much of a failure it's been but it's tempting. I think it's important to consider the factors with XBO that go beyond that unveiling. The system isn't really comparable to the likes of the original XB or PSP etc as those systems represented a first in line for their companies, a foot in the door intended for bigger success and they worked in those roles for the most part. The 360 built on that foundation throughout its life and left MS well positioned but far too dependent on too few a number of markets support. With the 360 though, as much of a hit as it was, it cannot be understated how much the failure of the PS3's launch factored into that success also. There's good reason MS lost ground slowly over that generation and once again came last place to the Wii and PS3 despite the good figures. To fall back to half your figures with almost zero momentum leading into another generation is nothing short of a disaster and it's little surprise that MS isn't just planning a restart (having previously touted the XBO brand being ongoing) but also potentially stepping away from the need for XB consoles.

Power: If MS launches with the most powerful console aka XBX2 (and this feeds into the above point) it'll undoubtedly be a sexy piece of kit. But short of a disaster on Sony's end Microsoft will get their asses handed to them every which way they can be by Nintendo and Sony. Here's the crux of the problem for MS, they were popular once in America and the UK. They need a major advantage over Sony to win back that level of support and the wider support they need and they've never accomplished that and... having the most powerful console won't achieve that for them either. It didn't work as a strategy for the third generation race, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth or the seventh and though it helped Sony a little it would be selling the PS4 short by continents of miles to think it's what is solely responsible for their victory this gen too. It's a great Day One bullet point but it doesn't decide successes from failures so MS should be cautious of how far they rely on this angle.

Switch: I side with it being a portable console. Though Nintendo's dedicated handhelds are likely over now and both home and handheld arms merged (one day we might see the fruits of that) the system is a great portable console... but sucks by handheld measures unless power is the only consideration.

Very well argued. To pick up on a point you made...If MS are making some content available on Switch and currently all their games are also available on PC, why buy an XBox at all?

[Neon Ignition]

I think that's the key to where they're headed if the rumours about Game Pass and XBL hitting Switch, Smart TV's etc pan out. As it stands there's no reason to own and Xbox if you have a reasonably powered PC so for Switch etc they'd be creating the same situation but if subscriptions from the wider audience outstrip the money earned on struggling hardware sales then it means the next Xbox consoles will be more a case of Microsoft hedging their bets and in time they'd have no reason to remain in the hardware business at all. That'd especially be the case if the speculation proved true that they had attempted very early talks to bring the service to Playstation as well. Makes sense though if MS now believes they'll never make Xbox as strong as brand as its rivals.

[wakka]

If they can genuinely popularise game streaming as a mainstream way of playing and become the dominant force in that space from an early stage, it stands to be much, much more lucrative than playing second fiddle to Sony in the traditional console space.

[fishbowlhead]

Very well argued. To pick up on a point you made...If MS are making some content available on Switch and currently all their games are also available on PC, why buy an XBox at all?

Which is the point I’ve been making for a long time. MS have punted anything worth owning an Xbox for onto pc as well.

For any outlier purchasers that would otherwise be tempted to pick up an Xbox for the odd exclusives they really want to play, that decision is made oh so simple, just get the pc version instead.

Console purchase lost instantly.

[Digfox]

I think MS are just covering all bases. XBO game streaming with XBL integration on multiple devices (inc. Switch) and maybe specific titles being launched on Switch (a la Minecraft). And then dedicated console hardware for those who don't want a PC to play the games at best resolution/locally. And Game Pass to launch on PC soon as we all know. Everything is in MS's XBL Ecosystem with a push to use their development tools.

I think that Phil Spencer doesn't want to repeat the launch mistakes of the original Xbox One and hence we'll probably see a much stronger launch out of the gate. MS doesn't depend on console hardware as much as Sony and Nintendo but I still think they see it's place.

They may be a risk of confusion, or too many hardware pieces making it more convoluted than a simple one-sku hardware launch. But we'll see over time I guess.