Guess this will all slip substantially now.
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Xbox - Series S/X: Thread 01
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Originally posted by charlesr View PostMight the specs change if it slips far enough....
We have seen Nintendo stock is getting low on their Switch though.
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Originally posted by Digfox View PostKinect specifics aside, I think this is where it comes down to your definition of 'custom' but certainly specifically with regards to games I'd understood Dolby Atmos for Headphone on PC and Xbox One is a software wrapper where the end result is upmixing which produces a sound like Dolby Atmos rather than being specific hardware encoded positional audio.
We aren't talking about Series X in this specific conversation (more about why everyone believes Sony leads with regards to PS5 audio). It feels clear that there will be a bigger leap in audio with XSX and PS5 (particularly where we know more about the latter atm). Digital Foundry made this very point when talking about the PS5. The leap in audio is going to be exponentially bigger for these new machines compared to previous generations.
For games, games are produced using the Windows Spatial Audio APIs, typically a 7.1.4.4 speaker setup is used as the "bed" audio, with those being positioned around the user using either the Dolby/Sonic HRTF (encoded in realtime by the Xbox's audio chip) ,there is then 16 other audio channels that can be positioned in the same way, or dynamic audio objects.
The PS5 will now be able to do the same thing, but it has a greater processor than Xbox One does, so the 32 object limit can be much larger.
Xbox Series X has a fancy new audio processor too, which is also hooked up to some new software and APIs MS has developed
Both machines have now got the audio power to calculate better audio, but also be able to position it better in the user's head.
Basically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.
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Ta [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]
Regarding the 32 limit on objects (which John Linneman referenced in the PS5 analysis) apparently that isn't the case with Dolby Atmos. Although I'm not 100% sure if this response relates to the upmixing on Dolby Atmos for Headphones.
As you say developers utilising unique systems strengths is an issue, as most of this is moot with the current consoles because very few games support Dolby Atmos so will just switch back to uncompressed stereo or 5.1. And hence why audio is basically the same irrespective of whether the game is on Xbox One or PS4.Last edited by Digfox; 24-03-2020, 14:16.
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Originally posted by Digfox View PostTa [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]
Regarding the 32 limit on objects (which John Linneman referenced in the PS5 analysis) apparently that isn't the case with Dolby Atmos. Although I'm not 100% sure if this response relates to the upmixing on Dolby Atmos for Headphones.
As you say developers utilising unique systems strengths is an issue, as most of this is moot with the current consoles because very few games support Dolby Atmos so will just switch back to uncompressed stereo or 5.1. And hence why audio is basically the same irrespective of whether the game is on Xbox One or PS4.
I think it’s a soft limit to stop CPU being sucked up on PC
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Originally posted by EvilBoris View PostBasically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.
EvilBoris what’s your take on the ML HDR implementation on XsX? Looks like a great feature to have especially if it’s at no cost to performance.
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Originally posted by CMcK View PostPeople need to hear Gears 5 with its Atmos support via headphones it’s very impressive. The sound stage is wide and surprisingly deep when it needs to be. The sense of position is excellent too. As a preview of things to come it’s pretty exciting.
EvilBoris what’s your take on the ML HDR implementation on XsX? Looks like a great feature to have especially if it’s at no cost to performance.
Microsoft’s ATG group is really doing some crazy things.
I think it’s been trained with ML, I don’t think that it’s doing anything in real-time beyond inversing the SDR tonemap and then redoing it for HDR.Last edited by EvilBoris; 24-03-2020, 19:22.
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Originally posted by EvilBoris View PostBasically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.
Finding details on the PS4 and Xbox One seems to be really difficult when trawling through search engines. However a number of times it’s been mentioned here the XBO is doing more on the audio side (away from Kinect) and I’m still not sure that is accurate given how similar they are (hence quoting [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]).
- Both PS4 and XBO support positional audio.
- Games like Gears 4 and 5 get praised for their Atmos support. However those that have tried it equally praise Drakes 4 and Days Gone for their positional audio support.
- Both PS4 and XBO use an audio block within the Jaguar APU for processing.
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Anyway I tested Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital and Stereo on a few games across PC and Xbox One X. I played The Division 2 and Rim of the World (via Netflix). Both support Dolby Atmos. My setup was using various headphones (DT 990 Pros, AKG K702/K712 and K361s) either via the Creative Soundblaster X7 with or without it's SBX processing switched off (switched off for Atmos) and via the controller. I have tried it before but dismissed it, so wanted to review again.
- Dolby Atmos for Headphone is really impressive.
- However against Dolby Digital with Creative’s SBX processing the difference is negligible.
- With Atmos the sound is slightly more detailed in terms of what you can hear (i.e. hearing more stones land on the ground), however the sound is slightly more muddy. Impressive soundstage.
- Dolby Digital is clearer with slightly larger soundstage. Positional cues are also more accurate.
- Dolby Digital and SBX on the Sound Blaster X7 provide just as much vertical height.
- Creative’s SBX is still class leading imo. Of all the various hardware or software virtual surround I’ve tried they (Creative) still have the best positional audio solutions for headphones.
The biggest impact on the quality and immersiveness on the sound is the headphones, DAC and AMP. Virtually all headphones come alive when amped. Going through the controller with Dolby Atmos and the choice of headphones is much reduced.
And that’s where I think Sony (maybe Microsoft too) could have a game changer. If they can get developers to support it and make it work across any audio setup. I might not need a separate external processor (the DAC) as the PS5 will be good enough to take care of the positional audio and you just need something for the AMP, Microphone and speaker parts.
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