Gran Turismo is most significant title ever

[charlesr]

But don't you feel that GT3 has basically reached it's pinnacle? GT4 might have better graphics, but car phyics engines have reached their limit. After all the physics aren't difficult to simulate. Friction, inertia and suspension, that's pretty much it. There's only so much you can do. They might be able to make it slightly more realistic, but this only leads to boredom. Car & Driver on the PC simulated cars perfectly years ago and if you decided to make your own car e.g. peugot 306, they turned out extremely boring.

And for some of you, the main question will be, PS3: Could it do GT3?

[rylee]

Actually I think driving/racing simulators have a lot farther to go. I expect that developers will be able to create an extremely deep and enjoyable game that puts the current attempts to shame. How will they do this? - I don't really know as I am not a tech, but I think there is much improvement to be made, which will make the current games look like basic toys. All of the shortcomings constantly mentioned regarding vehicle dynamics, opposition AI and online features will be ironed out and the user feedback will need to be enhanced (new controllers, video and audio cues that copy the real-world authentic 'little details') as this is a major element to developing complete immersion. I won't be happy until the GT series reaches absolute photorealism and I can't see any 'game' flaws that break my illusion of playing in a real environment.

At least I can dream of the ultimate home driving/racing experience!

[dgnr7982]

The problem with GT3 was that you had to do the same track again and again for 10 laps, 15 laps, 20 laps to progress thereby ridding the game of any fun - it just became a chore - especially with having to change tyres every second lap. GT1 and GT2 I played non-stop till I clocked it because I enjoyed it but GT3 with its repetetive system bored me so I gave up at 60%

[FreeStephen]

Well I have owned Burnout 2, Colin McCraw WRC 2 Extreme but the Gran Turismo series are the only ones I keep going back to. Burnout 2 was really fun but it's more like Outrun than a racing sim.

I admit it's not perfect, the sensation of speed could be better but it drives like a sim, my car in the real world drives similar to the one in GT3.
An physic can get better but introducing crashes would make it more harder for non drivers to play. A single crash in the real world stops the car for the race and in the real driving simulator this is the way it would have to be done.

[saif]

You'll never see the 'surround' effect that you truly get when driving, replicated in a console game. The 3-screen Ferrari 355 Challenge has been the best arcade effort seen recently, but who can afford to try and replicate that at home? (or have the space!)

Except you will if you want it enough. There is a game that does it on the market already. its pretty old too - about two years old IIRC. Its called Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec. You may have heard of it. i.link it and see the options ooze out of the screen.

But don't you feel that GT3 has basically reached it's pinnacle? GT4 might have better graphics, but car phyics engines have reached their limit.

I kind of agree charlesr but then it depends on how you approach it. The physics can still change/improve 3 is quite different from 2 IMHO. But ulitimately this is a game for enjoyment. So some nice new tracks would be great. As mentioned, a bit of work on the AI and structure (the relative lack of prize cars in GT1 gave it the best structure of the 3 IMO).

The problem with GT3 was that you had to do the same track again and again for 10 laps, 15 laps, 20 laps to progress thereby ridding the game of any fun - it just became a chore - especially with having to change tyres every second lap. GT1 and GT2 I played non-stop till I clocked it because I enjoyed it but GT3 with its repetetive system bored me so I gave up at 60%

The only problem I had was with that ****ing test course. Otherwise, the 10-20 lap races were the best for me. Get into a groove, feel the tyres go etc. I liked the endurance races from throughout the series but i like these medium length ones even more tbh. You can see the quality of track design and i like the way that you have to adjust the style throughout to keep it going smoothly.

[Afterbirth]

But don't you feel that GT3 has basically reached it's pinnacle? GT4 might have better graphics, but car phyics engines have reached their limit. After all the physics aren't difficult to simulate. Friction, inertia and suspension, that's pretty much it. There's only so much you can do. They might be able to make it slightly more realistic, but this only leads to boredom. Car & Driver on the PC simulated cars perfectly years ago and if you decided to make your own car e.g. peugot 306, they turned out extremely boring.

I'm gonna sound like a fanboy now (a racing fanboy)
I'll ask this, how can a racing game reach its pinnacle?
The GT series is gonna run and run methinks.
I just hope Polyphony (who are one of the best, if not the best programming team, technically) DO included the crashes, and some more tracks.
Failure to do so will result in GT4 killing the series and by the time the game comes out, i feel that it could have a detrimental effect on the playstation brand as other titles seem to be going to go a similar way - esp. EA's titles.

As for the what if's (if GT had never been released) - well, it had too. Apart from the NFS series, and Tokyo Battle there wasn't much else around. The demo's included in Moto Toon GP 2 gave an insight as to the way Polyphony were going to go.
Prehaps they should re-release that.

And for some of you, the main question will be, PS3: Could it do GT3?

I can't see it being a problem.
But it will be at version 5 by then i expect. Polyphony had orignally stated GT4 was for PS3, so its highly unlikely they'll do two more titles.

[FreeStephen]

GT4 will be a difficult game . It's going to run on PS2, odds are it will not need the hard drive and so it will not be able to be a technological leap.

Online gaming will be included to that might make it enough but other than that I don't think it will be able to include crashes , that will be GT5 on the PS3.

Still online gaming will be worth it and the latest selection of cars from EVO magazine. I think a Max Power section where you can customise the look of your car would be great but that will need a hard drive.

[Sigur]

Gran Turismo is nice and all, but its ****ing boring.

[Sidez]

Gran Turismo is nice and all, but its ****ing boring.

Word. Sega GT 2002 is actually fun.

[FreeStephen]

Gran Turismo is nice and all, but its ****ing boring.

Word. Sega GT 2002 is actually fun.

Gran Turismo is only boring if you don't like cars. If you want a fun game go play Super Smash brothers and forget about car games

[Guest]

I think the mention of titles like Burnout and NFS have indicated that some people recognise that Fun and Racing can go hand in hand.

There are many things I admire in GT3, and many things I dislike; the fact that I've clocked a fair bit of time on it means it must be doing something right, for a start. But I got my copy given to me by someone who gave up before finding the fun, and I nearly passed it on for the same reason - your first 20 races or so, particularly without any guide about what to buy to tune your car first, are really blimmin' dull; there is far too much repeating the same race to get extra cash, and the structure has been changed from GT2 to put far more emphasis straight away on upgrading the car you have, and not just buying a faster one.

The combination of the removal of the second-hand market, and the fact that you are given such a pittance for cars you want to sell (example: My Mazda mx-5 with over ?100,000 worth of extras on it is apparently worth about ?4,000) means that you don't build up the big garage of fun toys until much later. I'm currently (on race day 100 and something) driving a souped-up deluxe model Impreza round Monaco and having great fun trying to beat my own laptimes, but its taken a lot of slogging to get there.

The main gripe, though, is that this really is a Driving game, and not a Racing one. Close races are few and far between, because there is such a small incentive to find them, once you learn how car tuning works. I could spend an hour practicing my lap times round a circuit so I can just barely hold a win on the circuit, or I can spend 15 minutes doing easy races, earning enough cash to fit that extra turbo and leave the opposition standing.

[rylee]

mid - I think you've nailed the main points. GT3 is much more of a driving simulator than a racing game, although you are racing on circuits. There has been a shift from the earlier games regarding the upgrade structure and second hand cars, which does make it much easier to win once you progress past the initial money making races. Like you I wish the sell value of your tuned up car actually reflected the investment made, rather than some token amount not reflective of the cars true status.

I like GT for all that it does good and have never found it to be boring (except the long test course races - especially in a slow one-make series races!), just a bit repetitive and somewhat too slanted towards the hardcore car nut. Let's hope they can improve the 'racing' in the next version to help appeal to all the critics about this aspect.

[Chief H]

Having not played GT before picking up Gran Turismo 3, I didn't miss ideas such as second hand markets and body kits, although I could see how they would add supremely to the game.

I think much of the opening has to do with your procurement of the game and your philosophy behind playing it. I bought GT3 in order to join a race between me and two other mates to get 100% (none of us bothered to finish it though) and that was a large incentive to play. Knowing each % gain would put me one step further in a larger picture. I think buying a game means you approach it more positively than if you are given a title: You really want to play, you've paid to do so as opposed to playing because it's there. Anyway, I digress...

I actually really enjoyed the first few hours of GT. Playing as the minnow. the underdog, so to speak. Racing round, working to just get on the podium with my little AE86 Trueno whilst I scrape together the funds to get my real dream car, the Lancer Evo V, was great stuff. I felt like a small child, dragging together small change until I could take my meager funds to the shop to just about afford the car I had always dreamed of. Admittedly, having to weigh up the second hand market would've undeniably made this an even more engrossing experience.

The tedium comes, as you say, when you're granted to power to do things easily. You don't even have to drive well - get enough horsepower and you will undoubtedly win. This only becomes such a used tactic because the frustration of losing becomes so great. In the professional leagues, races take a substantial amount of time to complete, particularly when strung into championships. The thought of having to repeat races when they are so long makes you not want to take the risk of losing and so you pluck for the easy option. When you have the power, there is little more to work for. By that time, money is no object. So where is the will to go on?

I guess we all decide that one as individuals. My race kept me going (even though I know no one else is closer than I am to finishing, I still think it'd be nice to at least complete Gran Turismo mode.

[saif]

The structure of the game CAN be worked on.
I was glad to see the back of the second hand market as it was dodgy getting well-powered cars for a lot less than normal.
They should have puit the HP limits in from 2.
They should have had less prize cars like 1.

I personally really enjoy the start as you make adjustments to your car to keeep it up to scratch. I never got caught up in a do easy race to get more money together. Maybe you should improve your driving rather than just upgrading! The choice IS yours. I always tried to do new champs until I could afford a nice new car that allowed me to take on the harder champs.

[rylee]

To some extent once you pass the initial stages of acquiring a decent car, GT3 becomes a 'catch-em-all'. The racing element is overpowered by the ability to race in a far superior car against opponents who often have a love for the pit lane, one lap from the end! The entry restrictions for series races are much reduced from the earlier games.

The desire to keep going is simply fuelled by the collecting bug, which allows you to experience other models (and racing specials you can't buy) and then thrash the computer cars in an even more powerful racer. Gaining 100% and all golds will certainly keep some happy, but for many I can see that the novelty will wear off way before then. I suppose it comes down to personal willpower to select a fairer car for the later races, rather than a max-tuned racing monster.