This. Takes. The. Cake.

[Magnakai]

I find it funny that it's the game's fault that two underage kids were playing it, and seeing some guy with guns, somehow managed to get hold of a piece of equipment specifically designed to kill, and took it upon themselves to go and shoot a real living person.

I blame the parents who sit their kids in front of the TV and order it to raise them into productive adults, who barely lift a finger to mould their child from a squealing little lump. My parents worked DAMN hard for my brother and I, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

[Oh! My Car!]

just like we ban child pornography and entertainment spectacles such as cock fighting and dwarf throwing.

that's....i mean...people, do that!!
I'm SHOCKED....


I mean ****! Why has no-one made a game of dwarf throwing yet?

[Baz]

I emailed him:


re: the article "give back take two" published 29/12/03 http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm

This is a poorly researched, poisonous piece of writing that wouldn't be out of place in the extreme-right wing pages of the Daily Mail (apparently the UK's answer to the New York Post - or is it the other way round?).

You seem to have entirely misinterpreted the nature of the game, and neglected to mention its 'comic book' graphical style, for the purpose of your article. To suggest that this game "is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy" is frankly offensive. Perhaps you are the one having trouble distinguishing videogames from reality?

This article may have been written purely to damage the stock of Take-Two interactive. Either that or you're simply very narrow-minded.

Either way you shouldn't be able to spread your views in a newspaper, you ignorant man.



I don't know why. His article just really annoyed me and I wanted him to know. If I get a fun response I'll post it.

WTF am I still doing up?

[Spatial]

Look, lets face it, we all know video games make people go out and kill.

You can't deny the proof.

The GTA series has caused hundreds of kids to think about murder, while just last week Barbie's Horse Riding School caused even me to consider murdering the entire programming team that created it



j/k obviously - but not about the Barbie bit


And dwarf throwing ? Man thats priceless !!


Better that I suppose than Dwarf Tossing

[Marvelon]

It's been a couple of days since I first read this and I'm still dumbfounded. Who the heck does this guy think he is? He's a stock-analyst-journalist type and he chooses to abuse his space as a journalist to spew his own dismay at something he (clearly) doesn't understand. It's left me speechless.

[aidey6]

December 29th 2003? Not only is the article risible, it's also two years late.

Clearly we have found the US version of The Daily Mail.

g/f bought the Mail on Sunday (pls don't ask ) and she showed me an article on Manhunt.

This should help boost sales....

[Zed]

Another thing is that games, no matter what happens will get blamed. Doom was blamed for high school shootings, even though the game had you play a marine shooting ALIENS, MONSTERS and ZOMBIES.

Don't forget that it's far easier to blame something which is an easy target, than to anaylse the fact that your society and culture might be to blame. And heaven forbid that someone blame democray/capitalism isnt working in the great U S of A!

Anyway, i expect Manhunt got bad "reviews". I've already had one friendly discussion & debate with a conservative christian at work about Manhunt, gaming and effects on or by society.

[Concept]

Anyway, i expect Manhunt got bad "reviews". I've already had one friendly discussion & debate with a conservative christian at work about Manhunt, gaming and effects on or by society.

I think Manhunt got bad reviews and reactions mostly because of who made it and the conditions surrounding its release. Rockstar are notorious for whipping up a media frenzy over enforced controversy. Although to be fair to Manhunt, the game was effectively released via stealth marketing, meaning that accusations Rockstar made the game specifically violent to attract publicity is probably unfair. They simply knew it would be heavily censored or banned if Manhunt attracted the same kind of attention as GTA in the press and political arena. Besides the reason Manhunt never had quite the same sales potential as GTA is simply because its gameplay concept isn't anywhere near as massmarket. It's by default a linear stealth game based on the premise of acting out a role within a snuff movie. Hardly the kind of marketing proposal that was ever going to see the cash registers fluttering all bright and happy.

This is why I think Mahhunt has been underrated and unfairly discriminated/dismissed by sectors of the gaming community. Because of Rockstar's reputation for milking controversy and the notion its violence is a cynical gimmick to attract the gore-teenage crowd... Well, the fact Manhunt is also a supremely involving and atmospheric game seems to have been largely ignored.

This is way off the mark, so before anyone shouts me down let me say I am not trying to generalise against a whole gaming demographic, but rather specific reactions within that. It seems to me if Manhunt had been produced by a third-party Japanese devco, certain sections of the gaming population would be raving about it. Yet because the game's premise was developed by Rockstar... Famous for their success of a remarkably designed game, based on a clunky engine with self-knowingly risky themes... Manhunt was dismissed. You know, they're that cynical company who focus on making all things violent so as to appeal to the lowest common denominator out there...

For that reason alone, I think Manhunt was written off before release because of not only who made it, but the reasons why people thought they produced it in the first place. The game not only had to avoid heavy media exposure to be released in the state it currently is, but also had to battle the dedicated gaming sector's preconceptions that the title was mainly aimed at being controversial for the sake of being controversial.

Think about it. No artisitic intent. Cynical. Exploiting. Delibrately self-conscious.

Now, I'll be the first to admit I was one of those who initially thought all of the above. I am not Rockstar's biggest fan and I never will be, but I believe I can see an interesting game when one is put in front if me.

Yes, Manhunt is viciously brutal and violent to the point of cheapness. But that's the whole idea in my opinion; the act of killing in the game is supposed to be cheap and to make you feel cheap in doing it. Yes, its profanites and scripting are at times laced with immature overuse. But by and large it also has an absolutely soul crushing atmosphere and utilises several interesting presentational devices within its gameplay dynamic, that aren't as simple as they first appear.

An over-the-top violent/gritty survival horror tied in with themes found in Escape From New York and The Warriors, centralised on an idea of you taking part in a kill-or-be-killed-snuff movie. Made by Capcom or Konami.

If this were produced by the teams behind titles such as Siren or Silent Hill, even if the title was rough around the edges, I still think it would have gathered more respect.

I get the sense people would be commending them on exploring such a risque and fresh direction, if they were to have come up with such a concept. Now there's no doubt the technology which Manhunt is executed with isn't exactly the most supremely polished out there, but what's done with it is certainly deeper than many previously had led me to believe before playing the game.

Sorry if I offended anyone or took this thread slightly off-topic. That's just the way I feel about the situation on that particular title and it's only my opinion after all.

Mostly an opinion about what I consider to be a knee-jerk reaction towards the exploration of violence in videogames at times.

[KartoffelKopf]

Intelligently and eloquently put. Nice post

[Marvelon]

Wow! Here's a breath of fresh air!

http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/04/1/13/18006955.cfm

[Saurian]

Wow! He admits he was wrong! That's a damn good job Penny Arcade did there, that guy had to totally eat his words.

[Ady]

the fact Manhunt is also a supremely involving and atmospheric game...

In YOUR opinion...

If this were produced by the teams behind titles such as Siren or Silent Hill, even if the title was rough around the edges, I still think it would have gathered more respect.

Not from me, but I see what you're getting at.

My beef was that I found the game entirely vacuous and repetitive. Take away the gore, the nice visuals and the trendy actors and what do you have? An anaemic maze game.

State Of Emergency was better, imo and that's not saying much.

[Concept]

In YOUR opinion...

Do I have to put 'in my opinion' in every single post or paragraph? I think those who've read me here know by now that I don't state anything of what I say to be the one and only single truth out there.

EDIT: I did put that in my initial post which you quoted anyhow...

and it's only my opinion after all.

My beef was that I found the game entirely vacuous and repetitive. Take away the gore, the nice visuals and the trendy actors and what do you have? An anaemic maze game.

State Of Emergency was better, imo and that's not saying much.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I could come up with a ten page reply post as to why I think Manhunt works, but in the end it's pointless. We'll still be disagreeing at the end of it. That's opinion.

[nips]

That's a damn good job Penny Arcade did there, that guy had to totally eat his words.

It seemed to me like the guy didn't have to eat his words, he seemed more than happy and sincere in his apology. And that's the best kind of apology!

I never knew they did PA did that, and I've certainly gained a lot of respect for them, despite the fact I'm not a big fan of the comic I'm going to keep an eye on them for more information on thier actions.

I'm really impressed. It does clearly show that the guy drew his conclusions without fully exploring the gaming picture and understanding the essence of the market!

Well done PA. Three Cheers! Hip-Hip!