Xbox Series S/X: Thread 05

[hudson]

https://www.eurogamer.net/majority-o...nt-its-claimed

Xbox flatlining in Europe, Devs asking why they even bothered going to all the trouble of creating two versions of their game (X and S versions) as the returns were so poor, retailers cutting back shelf space for the consoles. I wonder if all the talk of turning the Xbox into a steam box or supporting other store fronts is a way of shoring up support for future releases by sidestepping the issue of having to create Xbox ports. I really can't see this working well, it takes away the ease of use of the console for a start, every time you buy a game on steam are you going to have to check how well it runs if at all.

Imagine if I had posted this yesterday and then scroll up

[Lebowski]

lol my bad sorry hudson completely missed you post

[fishbowlhead]

Much more concise than my post

Na you hit the nail on the head on all your points.

[CMcK]

Side note - All businesses would find life infinitely better as well if they started ignoring social media, PR etc metrics based around Gen X, Z, Millennials etc. It's all meaningless BS that corresponds to nothing and has zero impact on buying habits and how societies develop. Generations aren't that short, defined or frankly that different from one another. Another area that Nintendo seems to have gathered a much stronger grasp of than its rivals.

Quoted as this is so true. Also the way rumours are treated as facts these days is exacerbating the whole consoles are doomed narrative.

[nonny]

https://www.eurogamer.net/majority-o...nt-its-claimed

Xbox flatlining in Europe, Devs asking why they even bothered going to all the trouble of creating two versions of their game (X and S versions) as the returns were so poor, retailers cutting back shelf space for the consoles. I wonder if all the talk of turning the Xbox into a steam box or supporting other store fronts is a way of shoring up support for future releases by sidestepping the issue of having to create Xbox ports. I really can't see this working well, it takes away the ease of use of the console for a start, every time you buy a game on steam are you going to have to check how well it runs if at all.

The funny thing about this is it was one publisher, one... but now it's being reported as some.

[nonny]

Sony & Nintendo are profitable (they have to be), MS are struggling to make profits because their not making enough games that sell consoles, not sure why this has turned into “consoles are teh doomed” when in reality it’s only MS struggling, because again, their not making anything that people really need to play on that box.

They have also been giving away any games that COULD generate decent profits on gamepass.

People gaming gamepass so their not paying full price.

Massive brand identity crisis.

Poor indecisive leadership.

Total lack of generation preparations for software.

Wasting massive time and effort on projects like the OneX when they should be focusing on games.

We can go on and on here, but the main culprit recently is gamepass.

Agree with most of that but I don't think Sony is actually as profitable as you think.

Nintendo operate very differently but looking at the insomniac leaks and the way they're diversing after Jim Ryans departure I don't think Sony are actually in as comfortable a position as they are portraying.

Their consoles are selling but profit margins are super slim. They are still greatly affected by the same market forces.

[Lebowski]

Sony & Nintendo are profitable (they have to be), MS are struggling to make profits because their not making enough games that sell consoles, not sure why this has turned into “consoles are teh doomed” when in reality it’s only MS struggling, because again, their not making anything that people really need to play on that box.

They have also been giving away any games that COULD generate decent profits on gamepass.

People gaming gamepass so their not paying full price.

Massive brand identity crisis.

Poor indecisive leadership.

Total lack of generation preparations for software.

Wasting massive time and effort on projects like the OneX when they should be focusing on games.

We can go on and on here, but the main culprit recently is gamepass.

Nail, head, hit, the only thing that goes against the above is Microsoft keeps saying game pass is profitable, I really can't see how with its current issues, Maybe that profitability is a projected thing.

[wakka]

Oh my goodness guys do we really need to do this again...our weekly conversation about Game Pass profitability?

34 million subscribers
$15 per month
$500m per month
$6bn per year

Microsoft are not spending anywhere near $6bn per year stocking Game Pass with software or marketing it. It's profitable.

The problems with it for MS aren't related to profitability but growth. How much further can it grow, considering how poorly Xbox hardware is selling? This is why they are releasing more first party games on PS5, because it gives them a whole new area to grow into.

Of course it will likely be at a cost of further damaging Xbox hardware's already ailing sales. But they seem to feel that that's a lost cause anyway.

[Lebowski]

34 million subscribers, (this includes core and pc)
$15 per month, (PC and core are not $15 a month)
$500m per month (the above means that this sum is wrong)
$6bn per year (the above means that this sum is wrong)

You have to take into account the money they give away from their rewards scheme and the discount you get for subing yearly, the running cost of all the studios they own that put games straight into the service and the fact that until recently you could game the system to get multiple years of subscription for a fraction of what you're saying was a monthly cost.

[wakka]

Okay, take into account all of the people on reduced membership prices due to the £1 conversion, all of the people in Core and PC, and call it $3bn then (although I think it's probably more).

It's still profitable. The Rewards scheme is an absolute drop in the ocean mate - and the calculations for the other studios, including the $70bn acquisition of Activision, is much more complex. Minecraft, for example, is multiplatform. CoD is multiplatform. Games are sold individually, and have DLC. Game Pass is not the only way that those games get a return.

And think about the cost of those games to develop. An ultra AAA effort might cost $500m. The $3bn intake can well withstand a few of those - and the rest are budgeted anywhere between $1m and $50m, easily slotting into that giant pile of cash.

Most of the games that hit Game Pass aren't even original, just licensed to appear there - meaning the overall cost to MS is actually much lower than the development budget, since the developer is able to additionally recoup costs from PlayStation, Steam, etc.

Of all the things to criticise about MS, the idea that Game Pass profitability is a lie is a really strange one to me.

[fishbowlhead]

Agree with most of that but I don't think Sony is actually as profitable as you think.

Nintendo operate very differently but looking at the insomniac leaks and the way they're diversing after Jim Ryans departure I don't think Sony are actually in as comfortable a position as they are portraying.

Their consoles are selling but profit margins are super slim. They are still greatly affected by the same market forces.

PS5 hardware crossed the break even line into small profits in Aug 2021, which is the big hurdle any console manufacturer wants to get over, plus their in house games have all been profitable. Obviously they have also been spending, which affects profits for whatever year, especially bungle, but overall PlayStation is in good standing.

[fishbowlhead]

Okay, take into account all of the people on reduced membership prices due to the £1 conversion, all of the people in Core and PC, and call it $3bn then (although I think it's probably more).

It's still profitable. The Rewards scheme is an absolute drop in the ocean mate - and the calculations for the other studios, including the $70bn acquisition of Activision, is much more complex. Minecraft, for example, is multiplatform. CoD is multiplatform. Games are sold individually, and have DLC. Game Pass is not the only way that those games get a return.

And think about the cost of those games to develop. An ultra AAA effort might cost $500m. The $3bn intake can well withstand a few of those - and the rest are budgeted anywhere between $1m and $50m, easily slotting into that giant pile of cash.

Most of the games that hit Game Pass aren't even original, just licensed to appear there - meaning the overall cost to MS is actually much lower than the development budget, since the developer is able to additionally recoup costs from PlayStation, Steam, etc.

Of all the things to criticise about MS, the idea that Game Pass profitability is a lie is a really strange one to me.

Your quoting numbers off the net that have no bearing on the reality on Xbox business operations and what GP is actually bringing in. Then there’s the fact that 34m subscribers is most definitely a total fabrication, the truth may never been know but I don’t believe gamepass is profitable and Xbox division certainly isn’t.

[wakka]

Where am I supposed to be getting my information...? Phil Spencer's personal OneDrive?

Honestly, it sounds like we can't continue the chat, which is a shame cos it's an interesting topic, but fair enough.

[nonny]

PS5 hardware crossed the break even line into small profits in Aug 2021, which is the big hurdle any console manufacturer wants to get over, plus their in house games have all been profitable. Obviously they have also been spending, which affects profits for whatever year, especially bungle, but overall PlayStation is in good standing.

Yes the shift to the slim model has certainly helped that but the software side of things isn't nearly as rosy.

The new COO has taken a hard look at the overall GaaS strategy Jim was pushing and pretty much scrapped most of that.

Naughty Dog and Bungies issues are well known and there's nothing really coming out of first party for the foreseeable this year.

VR as a software venture seems like a disaster overall, despite the hardware being solid and Sony seems to be relying a lot of big 3rd party exclusives but even there it seems developers like Square are re-evaluating that model.

I'm not saying it's doom and gloom but Sony are certainly looking at PC and how/where they get their sales just like Xbox... maybe for different reasons, but games like Helldivers 2 are most likely giving damning evidence the old AAA exclusive model isn't enough.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/27/24114048/microsoft-xbox-series-x-white-digital-edition-leak-rumor

MS might have scaled back the Xbox Series X refresh even further