Has Nintendo gone lazy?

[John Beaulieu]

nintendo have always been lazy - just that their 'laziness' is normally superior to other peoples efforts

this gen though its not working out for them

camps

[Saurian]

I love the gamecube and I love Nintendo - I have been ignorant of the UK Gamecube scene until recently. I cannot believe how **** that machine is here and I really dont blame people for being pissed off with it.

But UK scene aside the Cube has given me some serious entertainment and there is far more to come. I strongly believe that Smash DX is one of the best games of this generation - I have been playing solid since it's Japanese release and meet up every week with friends for t3h challenge sesh every week without fail.

Nintendo need to showcase it's games properly - I'm sick of seeing **** Gamecube displays in shops running in composite...

[SharkAttack]

Lets face it Nintendo needs to sort out its US marketing, its all round media releases (poor screen grabs everytime) and its In store Demo's. They also need to advertise their games MORE. They normally do so building up to release and then stop. I still see the odd Splinter Cell ad and that came out last year.

If they had a demo pod in every game shop in Europe and America that had playable demos of ALL First and Second party releases so far plus third party exclusives (timed 5 minute demos) then a lot of people would bite. Especially at the low price.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Nintendo today are the same as they've always been.
They release a tiny % of excellent games in each generation and fill the rest of the release schedule with safe franchise games they know will sell in good numbers...

They're not a consistantly brilliant as Sega now, they never have been and they never will be. Not sure what everybody is expecting tbh...

[JibberX]

All I want to do is play Nintendo games, I know with a Nintendo game I won't be wasting my time. LTTP on the GBA is fantastic as it was on the SNES, Super MArio Advance 3, fantastic. Pikmin, SMS, Metroid, all entertained me beyond any other games I own.

[bowser123]

Nintendo today are the same as they've always been.
They release a tiny % of excellent games in each generation and fill the rest of the release schedule with safe franchise games they know will sell in good numbers...

They're not a consistantly brilliant as Sega now, they never have been and they never will be. Not sure what everybody is expecting tbh...

Really?? Well list all the bad nintendo games of recent times then. I bet there are far more bad games by Sega than Nintendo in recent times. What Sega games can really stand up to the truly great Nintendo titles like Zelda, Mario, Pilotwings, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Pokemon (ignore all the merchandise surrounding it), Advance Wars, Eternal Darkness, Smash Bros. The list really is endless. Even the games that have been slated like Luigi, Pikmin and Mario Sunshine are better than 90% of every other game available. Sure, I love Sega too (I'm buying an X-Brick so I can play Orta and Toejam) and Rez is still wonderful today (IMO the 3rd best game on PS2) as is Monkey Ball. But Sega are far from perfect, look at their ****ty Virtua Striker series, the not so great 18 Wheeler, the now boring Crazy Taxi and the endlessly poor 2K3 games with a bit of snoozey Sega GT.
Of course, there are no Nintendo games included here http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/viewtopic.php?t=157
And Sega can't make a decent pad to save their lives...

[Dezm0nd]

The magic is there it's just not as strong as it once was imo.

That's a spot on comment there, after playing countless magical games on the n64, i feel the cube, whilst being great fun, isn't as good as the n64/SNES days.

How many times have you completed SMS? for me, once with 120 shines.. fun, but it's no mario 64 or Super Mario World

SM64, SMW, SMB3 are three examples of games that i will play for fun and it won't feel like a chore. SMS was a chore... blue coins, anyone?

People keep on mentioning games like Advance wars, Eternal Darkness and what not but they're not in-house nintendo titles.. Advance wars was amazing, but it's a 2nd party game done by Intelligent Systems and ED was done by Silicon Knights.

[Montaver]

I have to say I agree with Sidez on this one. For me, Nintendo havnt delivered. The N64 may of had a very limited software library (Fighters? , RPG's?) but there was quality where it counted. It was worth owning one just for GE, Mario 64, Pilotwings, Starfox and Zelda alone. This generation, what is the equivilant? In the first few months, the only thing that stopped me selling my cube was the sublime Super Monkey Ball, which Nintendo themselves had nothing to do with. Sure, there are other great games, such as Smash Bro's, Waverace and Rogue Leader, but are they really of the same quality?
I found Mario Sunshine crushingly uninspired compared to Mario 64. Yes, I know the leap from 2d to 3d etc, but it didnt have that same feel. Having not played Zelda yet, I can comment on it, but I do hope it can herald the start of a Nintendo comeback.
For me though, I dont think Nintendo are entirely to blame. This generation has underwhelmed me so far, the death of the DC, the hyped to the seams PS2 launch. Infact, I hate to even bring X-Box into such a well mannered thread, but Halo has kept my passion for console games alive. I pray Nintendo can turn it around.

[John Beaulieu]

OMG

some sega hate-age going on ft:

Sega are much more innovative than Nintendo - Sega will take risks on genres which Nintendo won't even dream of, and Sega will push a game without resorting to slapping a popular franchises name on it in hopes of fans of said franchise lapping it up

Sega have a triple AAA title in every genre available today (except survival horror i think) - something which no other developer can claim --- and Sega's output is many many times greater than any of its competitors, look at the DC, it only lasted a few years and yet the amount of Sega developed games available for its library is quadruple the amount of Nintendo developed games which were available for the N64 with over double the life cycle. Also Sega have a strong arcade tradition which is ported over to consoles - something Nintendo have sadly lacked for some time

Nice list of Nintendo titles but I can counter with the following:

Virtua Fighter series
Shenmue 1 and 2
Sega Rally 1 and 2
Sonic series
Outrun
Daytona
Crazy Taxi 1
Virtua Tennis/Power Smash series
Virtua cop series
house of the dead series
Panzer Dragoon series
Nights into Dreams
Burning Rangers
Samba di Amigo
Rez
Space Channel 5


i shall stop here but i could go on and on

concerning Sega can't make a decent pad......



probably my favourite analogue pad on any system (even if it was just perfect for a small number of games)

camps

[Valiant]

Nintendo didn't get lazy...they got complacent.

[bowser123]

RE: Camps.

"probably my favourite analogue pad on any system (even if it was just perfect for a small number of games)"

Exactly. Only any use for a small amount of games. I was refering to the awful DC pad by the way. And I don't hate Sega. Like I said, I am buying an X-Box just to play those wonderful Sega games and am still playing Rez on my DC now.
But regarding your list there seems to be a few holes to me:

Sonic Series- exactly which sonic game can compare to the best 3D platformer ever Mario 64, or the best 2D ones, Mario 3, Mario World and Yoshis Island?

Crazy Taxi- This was excellent on the DC when it came out, truly great. But it hardly stands up know does it? Look at the reviews it got in all the PS2 and Cube mags.

Shenmue- I don't want to upset you or anything, but there is hardly a more dull, boring and pointless game available IMO. Sure it looked absolutely stunning when it came out but it was never close to being the "best game ever" as some claimed it to be.

As for "Sega have a triple AAA title in every genre available today" is nonsense. Where is the footie game to rival Pro Evo/ WE? The puzzle game to test Mr Driller or Tetris? The RPG to come close to Zelda or FF? The FPS to blast away Halo or Goldeneye? Or the sheer genius that is Animal Crossing?

Oh and I think that Soul Calibur is twice the fighting game that VF is.

As for the innovation part that's slightly incorrect. Correct me if i'm wrong in any of this points but didn't Nintendo:
- Create the D-Pad
- Make use of analogoe sticks on console pads 1st
- Make the 1st portable console
- Find the 1st use of a rumble pad
- Invent a genre in Mario Kart that has yet to be bettered

As for games, yeah Pilotwings, Mario Kart (at the time), Animal Crossing, Pikmin, F-Zero and 1080 are all clones and well unoriginal.

I love Sega too, but they don't match up to Nintendo IMO.

[SharkAttack]

I've always seen Sega as the king of the Arcade game and Nintendo the King of the Home Console Game.

My ideal console software line up would take a big steaming bowl of Nintendo, add a frosty Sega Arcade topping and to it off with some Capcom fudge sauce.

[blastre]

Almost every N64 game that was update of an old classic turned that classic on its head and delivered. What I consider to be lacking in the Gamecube is that lessons learnt on the N64 haven't been followed through and Nintendo has back pedalled through its innovation and design.
Mario Sunshine is a great example to take. When Ocarina was released it did away with the repetitive Turok style jumping but I longed for years for the acrobatics and physics of Mario in Mario 64. In Sunshine Mario's physics were much more abstract. He couldn't crouch, crawl, run-jump or even punch. Where was the fun kid with the moustache who could bound around anymore?
The same problems with physics are apparent in Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Animal Crossing where the main character is rooted to the ground.
And take Waverace GC; it's purely an extension of the 64 game (as 1080 looks). I can't give up on Nintendo and I still believe the magic is there it's just that it's spread more thinly now, perhaps to get the games out quicker (one of the major gripes of the N64) and/or because Miyamoto now has a role as overseer rather than working solely on one or two projects.

[Dezm0nd]

I wonder if Iwata's new role of president has had an effect on Nintendo's quality/quantity ratio?

[rjpageuk]

I can name one; Sega. SC5 Part 2, VF4, PDO, JSRF and Gunvalkyrie. Horses for courses. I think Nintendo have been complete **** this generation and it's not me, it's clearly them.

Take a look at www.gamerankings.com which averages out reviews from all online sources for each game.

Lets look at the top Sega games over 2001, 2002, 2003:

1. NFL 2K3 91.6% , 2. Virtua Fighter 4 91.5%, 3. NBA 2K3 91.2%
4. Panzer Dragoon Orta 90.5%, 5. Metropolis Street Racer 89.2%, 6. NBA 2K2 89.1%, 7. Phantasy Star Online 88.7%, 8. NHL 2K3 88.3%, 9. Jet Set Radio Future 88.2%, 10. Super Monkey Ball 87.9%, 11. Super Monkey Ball 2 86.8%, 12. Skies of Arcadia Legends 86.8%, 13. Sonic Advance 85.6%

Now lets look at the top Nintendo games over 2001, 2002, 2003:

1. Metroid Prime 96.6%, 2. Zelda: The Wind Waker 96.0%, 3. Zelda: A Link to the Past 94.4%, 4. Advance Wars 92.9%, 5. Metroid Fusion 92.2%, 6. Zelda: Oracle of Seasons 92.1%, 7. Zelda: Oracle of Ages 92.1%, 8. Super Mario Sunshine 91.7%, 9. Mario Kart Super Circuit 91.5%, 10. Super Smash Bros. Melee 91.5%, 11. Golden Sun 90.6%, 12. Eternal Darkness 89.4%, 13. Animal Crossing 89.1%, 14. Pikmin 86.7%

That is having taken out all of the GBA ports of SNES games which have been released and OOT which has just been released on the NGC.

Sega average: 88.9%
Nintendo average: 92.1%

So actually it clearly is you... especially since Nintendo have the best average out of any games company.