The rise, fall and rebirth of Western Videogames

[John Beaulieu]

Metroid Prime - developed in the West hence a Western game

[Commander Marklar]

I take your point about Burnout 2 and Freqeuncy/Amplitude, they're both great games. I'm not saying all Western games are crap, just that the vast majority do not really interest me at all.

I don't agree with this viewpoint at all, mainly because there are few of us here get an accurate picture of the typical game produced in the far east; we tend to just see the 'cream of the crop', so to speak, rather than the typical deluge of software we see here. There is tons of pap out there, in both markets that are aimed their respective audience.

Japanese developers are single minded, sex craved weirdos -- they produce nothing but dating sims. The vast majority of Eastern developed titles don't interest me.

[Papercut]

I take your point about Burnout 2 and Freqeuncy/Amplitude, they're both great games. I'm not saying all Western games are crap, just that the vast majority do not really interest me at all.

I don't agree with this viewpoint at all, mainly because there are few of us here get an accurate picture of the typical game produced in the far east; we tend to just see the 'cream of the crop', so to speak, rather than the typical deluge of software we see here.

I don't think those two view points are mutually exclusive, I agree with what you're saying to an extent.

I don't think we just see the cream of the crop any more though, the flow of information enabled by the Internet has seen to that. I just think that compared to Western games, the 'cream of the crop' offers a greater selection.

[Commander Marklar]

I just think that compared to Western games, the 'cream of the crop' offers a greater selection.

Yea and no, I think >_< I don't reckon it is that valid a comparison as it isn't an alternative selection of games, but an increased selection. There are unique games available from the Eastern market and vice versa; that's not to say one is any better than the other, 'cos at the end of the day it all boils down to what you enjoy the most, I guess.

There certainly isn't much to compare against Western-derived FPS games in the Japanese market and just looking at Eastern developed racers shuns the whole European and US market.

A nice balanced approach is required in today's market, imho

[innovator]

Today my copy of Tomato - wordimagesoundplay arrived. It's basically an interactive DVD (but is played on PS2). It takes music from Underworld and gives you weird videos and stuff to play around with.

UndeadKing sez: "Spent 40 minutes "playing" WordImageSoundPlay and I don't know what the hell just happened. There was a "love story" about a crudely crafted clay horse and rabbit including a mention of "enveloping penis." A maze area where you control the word HORSE and have to watch out for the word SNAKE which either turns maze into 3D or tells you that "Snakes can be poisonious or psycic." Speaking of which, there are quite a few spelling mistakes in the "game," hence the "psycic." A video of the clay horse played and it started talking....insanity. I could go on, but you get the drift."

The weird visuals and music are by westerners yet it took a team of Japanese to realise the potential of these two different elements and combine them as a game. Just like Rez which had a good number of western designers involved, it needed a Japanese (Miziguchi) to have the vision in the first place. We obviously have a lot of design talent but western publishers will never support or nurture this talent. Until people stop buying so much licensed **** this will never change.

[PeteJ]

In my opinion East and West are getting closer together, perhaps not in terms of graphical style, but certainly with gameplay mechanics. Final Fantasy X2 is heavily influenced by the West, particularly America, while something like Frequency feels quite Japanese to me.

More and more games developed from around the world do not have a distinct feeling of thier home nation. If you didn't know about the games before hand, could you say that Ico, Burnout2, Winning 11, Virtua Tennis...etc were all made in whatever country? I don't think you could.

The west is improving, without a doubt. I think this has a lot to do with a harsher public market than before, and publishers are starting to realise that their games need to be better than before*.

* (I know that good game doesn't = big sales)

[Sketcz]

This is about a celebration of what I feel is a genuine rebirth of Western videogames (as opposed to computer games).

Call me blinkered, but I dont think its a rebirth, and Im not that excited about games of Western origin.
I think Western games have actually gone down hill of late. As has been said, back in the 8/16-bit eras, I used love many Western created games, RARE being a classic example, their games today are... well less said the better.
Most current West games are tired and stale, Splinter Cell is a dull bore-fest lacking in colour and has an uninteresting main protagonist compared to Metal Gear that seems brighter and more exciting in almost every way.

Apart from GTAVC on that list, all the other games I find tedious in the extreme.
Im not knocking anyone elses opinions, but for my taste, based purely on what Ive played and seen, I can only come to the conclusion that I am not a fan of Western games.
There are those I like, such as Tempest, Shadowrun and the sublime Lost Vikings. Star Control 2 which was an American 3DO game, will always find a spot in my personal top 5 games list, but that was made in '94 I believe. (the PC version is sufficiently different to warrant seperate discussions)
But in general I find the designs of Western games today flavourless.

Im also not going to go into what I think of the totally soulless MP, since Ive mentioned that in another topic. I found it almost sacriligious that they went and had a Texan company create it. Shamefull. MP should have stayed in Japan.


Its not the fact that I dont like Western games because they are Western, its simply because I feel they dont play or "feel" as good as their eastern counter parts. All too often feeling more stale and lacking that certain something. Ive gone through a whole slew of US and UK devved GBA games, none of them having been played to completion due to me ending up finding them stale.

I never actually made a concious conclusion that I didnt like them until I read this topic though. My thoughts on several of those games are well known.

Actually, I must say thanks Brats, I can now catagorise most of the games I havent liked this generation into one classification:
"Western games"



Anyway, I didnt want to offend anyone, since this topic is meant to be a celebration of something you all love, and having said my 2 cents, Ill be going now.


EDIT:
Edited this, to highlight the fact that I dont dislike all Western games, rather that I find games made in the West for this current generation to be duller than what we used to get say a decade ago.

The idea of Eastern and Western convergence is not something I like the idea of. What used to make gaming exciting was that each side was so radically different. This homogenisation is akin to muddied water, everything seeming to blend into each other. Poor analogy I know, but for me this is mainly an emotive argument.

[Prine]

I feel the west is catching up, some of the best titles I?ve played gen originate from the west. And then there's online, many western devs trying to do different things with multiplayer, Pandora Tomorow being the most recent example.

I also believe Half Life 2 will make the biggest impact this gen, mimicking real life physics, which sets up a whole new dimension of gameplay. Lots of possibilities.

[Brats]

I never actually made a concious conclusion that I didnt like them until I read this topic though.

How can you say that, when in earlier posts you've said:

I found it almost sacriligious that they went and had a Texan company create it. Shamefull.

I think many people on here who have an issue with Western developed games have a prejudice which has built up over the last twenty years. And I don't blame you. Over the past twenty years, most of the videogames produced by the West have been garbage. But there are some people who will never subscribe to Western games, even if the greatest videogame ever was produced by the West (and some would say it has!).

It's a slight shame that some are missing out on some great games and that no matter how hard they try or get better, Western developers will never be able to sell games to these induviduals. Thankfully though, they are in a tiny minority and most see the fantastic quality that the West produces.

[Moodmon]

The reason we (as gameplayers) sometimes see the West as inferior is because we live in it. We see all the useless tat that gets released over here, all the unspeakable badness that happens in (for example) Jedi Outcast, or numerous generic FPS games.

We rarely get to see the really bad Japanese games. Sure, you can import games, but normally only those you've heard are decent, or part of a franchise. If we lived in Japan, and had an open mind, would we think Western games are better? We wouldn't see Generic License karting, we would get Burnout. And KOTOR. And POP.

At least, I think we would.

[Sketcz]

I never actually made a concious conclusion that I didnt like them until I read this topic though.

How can you say that, when in earlier posts you've said:

I found it almost sacriligious that they went and had a Texan company create it. Shamefull.

Erm... because I never really realised who made MP until this year, and then suddenly everything made sense?
I genuinly didnt know the whole picture until recently Im ashamed to say.
So when i commented on how they shamefully used an out-of-house dev team, I was talking in the present, in that I only had this shocking realisation not too long ago.
(see Brats? My thoughts do make coherent sense when seen in context)


Anyway, I dont hate all Western games, Ive mentioned several I do like.
Though few have been from this generation.


EDIT:
btw, I am also looking forward to "Unity", which should not only cover me with regards to western games, but should show my support the smaller british scene. Well, as long as its nothing like Rez.


EDIT2:
While Im in an editing mood, let me just say, the West cannot do wacky like the Japanese can. I simply haven't seen it. The Japanese have Katamari, the West has stuff that looks like rejects from saturday morning kids cartoons.

Also, slightly OT, I also never like it when Japanese dev teams use out of house USA music composers to do music for their games. (Konami, Im looking at you and the tripe music you slapped onto MGS2 )

Top topic Brats, really needed to get that off my chest.

[Brats]

see Brats? My thoughts do make coherent sense when seen in context

But you made a similar comment on the MP thread before I posted this thread, so no it doesn't make sense .

I still loves yer though .

While Im in an editing mood, let me just say, the West cannot do wacky like the Japanese can.

Yep, I certainly agree with that. But the West can do quality, of that I have no doubt .

[innovator]

It's a slight shame that some are missing out on some great games and that no matter how hard they try or get better, Western developers will never be able to sell games to these induviduals. Thankfully though, they are in a tiny minority and most see the fantastic quality that the West produces.

Trust me, I don't feel that i'm missing anything. These games are simply not for me, just like Rez, wordimagesoundplay, LSD and Vib Ribbon are not for everyone. The lack of creativity and new concepts on the part of western devs though can't be denied. The main problem is that companies like EA are a waste of space. They haven't brought anything new to the medium and yet they have the money to take on more risky projects but choose not to.

[Brats]

The lack of creativity and new concepts on the part of western devs though can't be denied.

But I do deny it. There has been a wealth of creativity and new concepts devloped by the West, some of which I have already pointed out in these threads.

[innovator]

The lack of creativity and new concepts on the part of western devs though can't be denied.

But I do deny it. There has been a wealth of creativity and new concepts devloped by the West, some of which I have already pointed out in these threads.

Come on dude, you're really reaching it with those examples. If those games are as innovative (haha) as western gaming gets then you've proved my point. Hopefully more publishers will follow Sony and Ubi Soft's lead.