Nintendo Endings - will they ever get better?

[jezzace]

I loved the Mario World ending, of the credits going through all the different levels. Fan-bloody-tastic.

Ah I loved that ending, the music is so good!!

I really liked the Conkers BFD ending as well.

Nintendo should definately do an Earthbound style ending with the zelda games... it would be really cool to walk around hyrule and see how your epic quest has changed everyone's lives. Or maybe something like Chrono Trigger, where once you've completed it once you can start again with all items and powers. Speaking of which, Chrono Trigger also had 12 brilliant endings especially the one where you talk to the designers and they're all really bitter about having to work crazy hours.

[Pirotic]

I agree, the endings are always such a let-down.

its because they reuse the same story every few years, so they can't really put in a proper ending else i'd fuff up the sequels.

plus, if you killed off Bowser or Ganondorf you'd get the fanboys all upset

[imzu]

[quote="Electric Boogaloo"][quote="James Harvey"]

As for OoT's ending - it was fairly pants. There was no conclusion, no feeling of completeness, nothing! Same with Wind Waker, I felt cheated when I finished that!

I thought the ending was perfection myself. It's been a while since I played it, but I think you do see all the folks you've helped along the way in the ending.
But I loved the way the music and various tunes through the game are blended in the end sequence, really brought a tear to my eye.

[James Harvey]

Anyone who has completed the wonderful Robotech: Battlecry will find one of the best endings of modern times.

The hero, after being folded into space, defeats the final boss. He has no chance of getting home. It turns out the whole story has been his own obituary, told by himself, in his cockpit. The last screen is of the UN Spacy logo drawn in the condensation of the cockpit.

That's the exact ending of the original Unreal, as well. I remember playing Unreal... being 15 or something I'd decided to follow the plot very closely and got incredibly involved- for some reason I had predicted that the game would end with the main character dying on the cross. When it didn't, I felt really let down!

Jezzace, me and Boog watched the ending sequence to Conker's Bad Fur Day once... I seem to remember it being some kind of Conan homage. Is that the one you mean?

Btw I notice that most of the endings that have been cited as 'good endings' revolve around some kind of twist or Tales of the Unexpected-style surprise...

[James Harvey]

I agree, the endings are always such a let-down.

its because they reuse the same story every few years, so they can't really put in a proper ending else i'd fuff up the sequels.

plus, if you killed off Bowser or Ganondorf you'd get the fanboys all upset

It's not about upsetting the fanboys... the story of Mario and Zelda games have to be the same story every time but retold in different ways, that's why it's called 'The' Legend of Zelda and not 'A' Legend of Zelda.

The cleverness comes from what they do within these limitations. For example, we know that Ganon has to be defeated at the end of the game, but with the opportunity for him to come back at some point. That's what's so clever about one aspect of Wind Waker's ending...

Ganondorf is imprisoned in Stone with the Master Sword stuck in his head.

At some point in one of the next Zelda games, great evil will arise as usual and Link's going to have to get the Master Sword to deal with it- this time, pulling it out of the stone Arthurian-style. Trouble is, he can't get the Master Sword without immediately freeing Ganondorf! This is a genius twist on the usual premise, and whoever thought of this should be made Emporer of Japan.

[Crispin]

Aside from that fantastic end-of-battle sequence where Link owns Ganondorf (which is up there with the best imo) the before, during and after credits scenes were fairly poor.

That was great:

When Ganondorf finally reveals why he seeks power, "because of the desert winds", you finally realise he is a complex character, we just never see it.

Slightly ironic that in WW, Ganondorf is the only complex character of the three main characters. In OOT, it was the other way round. Ganondorf was shallow compared to the others.

OOT's ending was so brilliant. Gave you time to sit down and think about things. There was a feeling of melancholy, but I believe that was intended. No game since then, has affected me in the same way. That's not to say they aren't great, they are. But only OOT made me blub when:

The Great Deku Tree dies, despite your best efforts.

The ending to MM is quite sad, as:

Link is clearly trapped in that dimension, never able to return home to his friends, and he realises it. This allows Ganondorf to rise again, causing the events and prelogue of TWW

[Moodmon]

James, the ace thing about Batlecry is that you never see it coming. That plot up to that point has been patchy as best. I loved it.

Crispin, I thought in MM..

He got back to his old world, hence the Saria's Song twiddle and the little chalk drawing of Skull Kid. I could be mistaken.

[Crispin]

Could be, could be Moodmon. It's my theory, certainly. But I don't try and make much sense of it all, continuity wise. All we know is that OOT > MM > Lots of possible adventures > WW. I'm not going to start rationalising the thought processes of someone who makes a game where you attack giant gulls.

[James Harvey]

Link definitely gets out of the dream world in MM... we see him riding away in those woods which we know to be the 'real' world, because he's there in the intro sequence before the trippy 'u r entering teh nightmare dimension' effects start.

Link's meant to be a blank slate. I wouldn't say Tetra was particularly shallow though, or at least she doesn't need to be any 'deeper'. She's just very very cool, and that's all you need... and she's 100x more interesting than she is in the other games.

[Moodmon]

Zelda doesn't do continuity. I couldn't care less about the order of the games, as the plot is secondary to the actual gameplay (with the possible exception of OoT, where it adds significantly to the play experience).

I thought Link's Awakening had a decent ending.

Waking up the Wind Fish (it's a f**king whale man!) and seeing the entire island disappear, including Malon and Talon (or whatever the equivilant names where) almost bought a tear to my eye. Then you get the lovely drawing of Link floating away on a piece of wood, followed by the Song of the Wind Fish. Helps I think this is the best Zelda ever, mind.

[Concept]

It really goes to show that it's all about personal taste, as I found FFVII's ending vague and anti-climatic.

On the contrary, I think FFVII's open attitude to interpretation is a breath of fresh air in the videogaming world. You said a while back in this thread that you think games should perhaps offer more sadness to their conclusions, and from my point of view that's exactly what FFVII delivers.

In order to restore the Earth's lifeforce and balance, humanity together with civilisation have to be sacrificed... If you look at the meteor which Sephiroth has called down and Aeris stops, then you'll realise her spirit and white materia have to utilise all the lifeforce on the planet to ultimately save the planet. After the credits role and you watch an older Red XIII running up a cliff face to see Midgar completely decimated in ruin 500 years later, then you realise humanity hasn't survived the consequential fallout. That's for me what makes FFVII partly so special, because although it could be said to end on a downbeat note, I think there are also positive aspects too, such as the idea life goes on and the Earth grows without the harmful things which aren't there anymore. For example, watching the meteor crash into the planet and then being stopped by the lifestream at the peak of the climax, the whole group you've spent time with throughout FFVII come together and realise although everything is over, the only things they have left in the time remaining are each other... So this unification of the group as they watch the planet save itself, by gathering the power of everything harmful to stop something destructive, happens to be very poweful... And hence why we see the picture of Aeris right at the end...

But again, this is only an interpretation, and it's one that could be arguably contradicted by the release of Advent Children... Which is my one greatest fear for that film, in that by continuing FFVII, it could steal the game's end of some ambiguity and freedom of interpretation.

If you look more recently at Beyond Good & Evil, then you'll also see that too has an ending which is very much open to interpretation, especially when Jade's power transforms her into a being we can't quite grasp or isn't explained to us... Neither how all her freed comrades react to her...

In many ways, this lack of tying everything up speaks volumes to me about how narrative-based games are slowly beginning to mature. There are other examples where events are left unexplained and left to the imagination as to what happens next come their conclusion, such as Manhunt. But I don't want to delve too deep into the endings of other titles, in fear of spoiling anything for people.

That's why I have problems with a lot endings in current and last generation Nintendo console games, because there always has to be a clear cut resolution to most of them making sure the player knows exactly where they stand at the end. And this for me shows a lack of faith in the audience to accept something more ambigious. It's partly why I have trouble with the stories in the Zelda series because everything is usually laid out clearly, even if abstract themes are being dealt with. To be fair, in the case of Zelda this is due to it's childlike fairytale nature and the idea you're participating in a legend for future generations, so as James pointed out, there are strokes of genius in Nintendo's storytelling skill. Having said that, if I look back to the fairytale in ICO, then I find it's ambiguity far more approachable to interpreting it how you want, and consequently more compellingly handled, than say the narrative in Ocarina of Time. Now, I'm not altogether saying everything in Zelda is fully explained. For example, aspects such as the full history of the master-sword and where gems and artefacts came from are left to the imagination... But what I'm more referring to are the dramas which develop between the characters themselves... There doesn't appear to be any significant freedom or ambiguity there to allow ourselves to come to our own conclusions. Don't get me wrong... I often think Nintendo make excellent games, backed up with brilliant design, control and atmosphere... I just think the stories and emotions that are tied to those one player experiences are nowhere near as ambitious or as interesting as they could be. Again, it's down to personal preference, but Nintendo narratives generally tend to bore me, because I'm renacting the same scenarios and situations over and over again.

Btw I notice that most of the endings that have been cited as 'good endings' revolve around some kind of twist or Tales of the Unexpected-style surprise...

Once more, for my previous example, I personally believe the end of FFVII doesn't have a twist. Earlier on in the game, Red XIII's grandfather states the world of people is doomed to fade sooner or later, even if Cloud and co stop Sephiroth... All he does with Jenova, calling Weapon and the meteor is to perpetuate events faster... So again, at the end you just get this saddening sense the apocalypse of the human race is being brought forward rather than standing any chance of serious redemption. There is no twist as such... In fact, I'd say the reverse... The idea you've known all the way through the adventure that you haven't been able to stop what's going to come just reinforces how much you care for the characters and don't want them to perish. There are no major surprises during FFVII's conclusion in my opinion... Just a brilliantly handled finale that is supremely produced to reflect a variety of themes found elsewhere in the game.

[James Harvey]

Maybe I'm overcomplicating things here, but sometimes I like stories that are ambiguous, and sometimes I like stories that aren't ambiguous.

[Moodmon]

^ Unintentionally funniest post ever.

I like my endings to round things off. There's nothing worse than an ending that either leaves a gaping hole for a sequel [cough]Kingdom Hearts[/cough], or doesn't say anything at all.

[James Harvey]

^ Unintentionally funniest post ever.

It was meant to be funny, so thankyou sir i will take that as teh nice compliment

[Moodmon]

You meant it? Boo. Get off the stage, you're ruining my act. I kill you in a manner reminiscent of the end of WW.