LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - questions

[EvilBoris]

You must have a dodgy one, all of my phono sockets stick out like any other ones do.

[Kevvy Metal]

I do have an official PS2 Component cable here though - glad I kept that, been using an official PS2 RGB Scart cable as my TV seems to like 480i/576i RGB better than 480i/576i YPbPr.

Isn't RGB a better colour source anyways as the three colour sources are all seperate (but carried on tiny ****ty scart head pins) rather than YPbPr with the R&G on one connected and the B&G on the other with Y decoding the Green. (wierd system)?

RGB does look a little better on the LG than Component (i find that the Component input has the poorest blacks out of all the inputs on the tv (DVI is the best )) but prog scan goes a long way.

I have a question -

i got the LG and i get a split second yellow colour wash over the screen when changing aspect ratio ONLY WITH my dvd player over RGB (consoles on same input are uneffected) anyone else experienced this. looks a bit wierd. prob just the player.


I like my LG a lot now been playing with the settings over the weekend and think the TV looks fantastic over all inputs.

Some people say that the Luminous of LCD's is poor compared to CRT's but this TV (if contrast is turned well up) can be like starring into a light bulb
it's super bright.

I still don't understand the 1280x768 VGA setting with the 360. im using 1360x768 cuz the smaller setting sometimes didn't fit the screen properly.

Everything with this TV is better than my CRT, apart from blacks. but thats LCD for ya.

Lots of people think that SD stuff looks rank on a LCD but i think it more to do with the added clarity of LCD revealling the flawed images of SD. interlaced sources look blurry on LCD but they still did on a SD CRT, it's just a bit more noticable now.

[sj33]

Partial truth mate. Technically, YPbPr is still RGB, it just sends the signal in a different manner. It sends the chrominance and luminance levels of the red and blue, and just 'works out' the green from that. It's much more complex than that, but that's the simplest way of putting it.
RGB is, well, RGB... the signal sent in it;s purest, uncompressed fashion, so it's the most correct because console tend to render in RGB internally. It's just extremely bandwidth intensive, which is why you don't tend to find Prog. Scan over RGB Scart.

Your right though, RGB should always look the same or better than YPbPr for interlaced resolutions. The reason RGB commonly looks worse is just poor implementation of RGB in the set (the Samsung screens, for example).
The LG differs from most, it's RGB support is exceptionally great. I actually use RGB Scart for my PS2 instead of Component, as it looks better to my eyes (I am using official cables, mind).

As for SD on a HDTV, as you've probably found, it can look very nice. It's just that the screens tend to show up the flaws and shortcuts taken that are in the source to begin with but just aren't visible on a CRT (RE4, SotC), or suffer from poor deinterlacing (Ico).
As I posted earlier in the topic, I'm buying an XRGB3 when it comes out in March so I can get the best out of my old consoles on this set.

As for 1280x768 on the 360, it's just that many cheaper LCD TV's (those ones they sell in Asda and the like for sub-?500 prices) tend to be 1280x768.
I actually prefer a screen with 768 vertical resolution (instead of 720) as it's more suited for PC use. The 1366x768 resolution of most LCD TV's (including the LG) is the best overall solution in my opinion,

[demon9k]

i got the LG and i get a split second yellow colour wash over the screen when changing aspect ratio ONLY WITH my dvd player over RGB (consoles on same input are uneffected) anyone else experienced this. looks a bit wierd. prob just the player..

I get this with Sky via RGB. I believe its AV1 but I would have to check when I get home from work.

[themanwithapc]

I also use RGB over component for my PS2, even whilst using an unofficial RGB cable compared to an official set of component cables.

Recently after a bit of tinkering, I've managed to get a very good picture through VGA on my set. Watching a few downloaded AVI feeds, it got me thinking. How would the setup handle upscaling DVD's compared to a dedicated upscaling DVD player? Is it the actual software doing the upscaling, or is it down to the hardware to take care of it?

[EvilBoris]

I used to watch movies through my PC and VGA, I was using the Nvidia purevideo DVD decoder,it gave me an absolutely fantastic picture. Far better than my upscaling player. I was suprised by how much difference there was between the different decoders I tried.

[themanwithapc]

I used to watch movies through my PC and VGA, I was using the Nvidia purevideo DVD decoder,it gave me an absolutely fantastic picture. Far better than my upscaling player. I was suprised by how much difference there was between the different decoders I tried.

Nice. I've got the same decoder on my PC so hopefully that means it's a very worthwhile way for me to watch movies, as I watch the odd one at the weekend. Thanks for the feedback.

[andrewfee]

No photos unfortunately, as my camera died the other day, but I finally got my Sharp LC-26GD7E from Richer Sounds today, after waiting for what seemed like forever to get the refund from Amazon for the Philips 37PF9830.


(LC32GD1E pictured, but it looks the same)

The box was bulkier than I was expecting, but it turns out that it was due to some good padding, and because it was fully "assembled" in the box - didn't have to put the stand on etc.

First impressions; this thing is tiny! Compared to what I've had previously, at least. I set it up in the lounge next to my old 28" Panasonic CRT, and while they have the exact same screen size, it felt smaller. (until I turned it on) The black border around the panel does a good job getting your attention and drawing you into the picture.

As I suspected from doing testing with viewing distances and various screen sizes/types, 26" is the right size for me. After getting over the initial shock of how small it was, I soon adjusted. I've had a 32" Samsung, felt I wanted bigger (for games) and went with the 37" Philips, which ended up with everything other than 1080i looking rubbish. When buying a TV in future, if you plan to watch broadcast television or DVDs, definitely go with 1/3 your viewing distance. I sit about 6, 6.5ft, which is why I went with this size.

I love the colour - they call it "titanium" and it's a beautiful bronze/golden colour. (note: the latest shots seem to make it look like a dark silver colour - it is just like the GD1 series) The set is very well made, although I'd give the edge to Philips, but only because it felt much more solid with its full metal back and incredibly heavy stand. The plastic feels pretty thick and durable though, unlike the Samsung.

The set seems a bit... "chunky" but only because it's so compact - the thickness would probably seem about right with a bigger screen size. Not that it bothered me though, it just wasn't what I was expecting.



Unfortunately, cable management is similar to the Philips 37PF9830 - the cables all go in a row along the back of the unit and fit in a fairly small vertical space. (you do get a good inch or so more height on this though) If you have good quality (chunky) cables, this can be a right pain.

I can't see it being done a lot better on a small screen like this though; there's only so much you have to work with, and if you have the cable management in the same style as the Samsung, it won't wall-mount so well.

Details were very scarce on this model for some reason, so I didn't know about one big letdown - neither the HDMI or VGA inputs have a dedicated analogue audio port. (I believe they can share the single digital port though)

Speaking of HDMI, just like the Philips, it did not like PAL signals from my Oppo via a DVI > HDMI cable - unlike the Philips, it does work in 50Hz from my Powerbook, leading me to believe it's an issue with the player, rather than the display.


Update: As I was in the middle of writing this, I received an email from Oppo. (I sent an email this afternoon) They provided me with an updated (unreleased) firmware which gets it working perfectly. The Sharp has very little overscan applied, so you can actually see the very slight underscan the Oppo does. (for some reason)



Up close, as with all fixed-pixel displays, unless you're running native resolution (or higher, downscaled) the image quality is fairly average, although better than most I've seen. Back to the "proper" viewing distance of 6ft+ things certainly took a turn for the better. After playing around with the settings, the resulting image was fantastic. Unlike the previous two LCDs, I didn't have to do much to get it looking good - turned it to "soft" picture mode, and turning sharpness to 1 (out of five) looked great. It only needed a little fine-tuning to get it just right. I couldn't find any colour temperature settings though, so it was a little on the cool-side for my tastes, but changing from "Dynamic" to "Soft" definitely seemed to warm things up a bit.

My 360 has started crashing, and is due to be collected soon, but it was able to run for 5-10 minutes at a time, depending on the game, so I've done a bit of testing. It doesn't have the infamous "ghosting" on the menus that shows up on many displays that don't handle 720p so well over component. (the Philips set for one) The games just look phenomenal - way ahead of the Philips 37" LCD. (didn't have it when I had the Samsung, so I can't say how it compares to that)

I was unable to get CoD2 running long enough to give response time a hard test (one of the Russian levels mid-way through starts off rather dark, and excellent for showing up bad response times) as it wasn't even getting past the boot screen by that point, no matter how long I waited, or how many times I tried it.

It seems to have handled just about everything I've thrown at it very well - Shadow of the Colossus and Resident Evil 4 look better than they did in RGB on my CRT - I've always thought both were very aliased/low-res, but they looked much better here. (although Resi still wasn't great, imo) While not perfect, it handles interlaced games rather well too. This was somewhere the Samsung was seriously lacking, imo. I don't have Devil May Cry 3 anymore for the best test (that I've found) but unlike the Samsung, ships in Gradius didn't "disappear" when you come back, and ICO was playable. (was just a blurry mess on my Samsung)

The set really lives up to its name - everything is very sharp! This is the reason that games look so good.

DVB-T (freeview) is fairly responsive, and very good with aspect ratio switching (faster than I've seen) and while the source isn't great, it certainly looked fine. I actually had the aerial going to both sets, and in the daytime at least, the LCD blew away the CRT.



Unfortunately, it's not perfect. (of course) There is one glaring issue that I can't overlook - either "OPC" is not working, which seems unlikely, or the set does not infact have it. (Two members of staff at Richer Sounds told me it did, and I actually called Sharp to confirm this, and that it would work on all inputs)

There is nothing listed in the menus, the manual or any button on the remote relating to it. Covering up where the sensor should be (going by the GD1 models) does absolutely nothing. Sharp have said they will call back tomorrow, as they didn't have an answer, but I'm not expecting anything.

While the response time is typically great, in darker scenes, there is a tiny hint of smearing. Worse, however, is what would seem to be their "quickshoot" technology in action, at least I assume that's what it is. The only way I can think of describing it is "rippples" over large, fast-moving objects in a scene. This makes it sound worse than it is, but it's very similar to some Pixel-Plus 2 artefacts. (but on a lesser scale)

It has the worst menu system I have ever seen. Some things have too many options, others, not enough. What is really annoying though, is that nearly every menu has a "more" option that expands it to reveal settings you would use quite often. (like Brightness, for example)

There doesn't seem to be a comb-filter of any kind on the set!!! Now, for me, this is not an issue, as RGB SCART is the lowest connection I'll use, but I tested it for Lyris, as he was planning on purchasing the set as well. It was unbelievably bad with a 4:3 PSone game stretched into Widescreen over composite, like the interference was being stretched differently from the rest of the image, somehow.

As it is, I can't recommend the display. I keep wanting to like it enough to keep, but even if I have missed something painfully obvious with regards to the backlight (although I doubt it) the artefacting with a lot of motion puts me off enough to let other things like the lack of audio inputs for HDMI / VGA get to me.

I've had some trouble getting 1:1 over VGA too, although that may have been related to my Powerbook, I think a DisplayConfigX update might have sorted it. (all my custom resolutions were getting sent as 85Hz, even if I specified 60Hz only) I couldn't get it working with several of the resolutions from the Xbox 360 though, including 1360x768. (1280x720 did work though)

What I hate though is when a set does some things fantastically well, and then has major issues (imo) like these. While colour temperature is a little cool for my liking, as I mentioned earlier, it is far better than most, but colour rendition is fantastic. Colours are very saturated, yet still look natural, and as long as the scene isn't primarily dark, images have real depth to them that I haven't seen on another LCD. Bright scenes on this set are absolutely stunning.


Even though this was supposed to be a "stopgap" television, as I really need a display, there are too many (big) negatives for me to keep it, so it will have to go back.

I guess I'll have to wait for the Panasonic 600 series due out around mid-March now, but I'm not convinced that'll be the answer.

With brighter scenes, the viewing angles are fantastic (although I pretty much always view head-on) but it doesn't do so well in darker ones, with them washing out just like every other LCD.

One thing I do find strange is that while it's rated at 450cd/m2, the Samsung was 500, and the Philips 550, yet this seems to be the brightest of them all when Contrast is maxed. (not that I run it like that)

It's amazing how hard it is I'm finding to actually give one of these companies my money. I'm not looking for the ultimate in quality now - all I really want is something decent that doesn't have any major flaws. I could have overlooked the audio inputs, and the terrible menu design on this set if it didn't have the artefacting on quick motion and had a backlight sensor. (as long as it could go down low enough)

If the Sony V had a VGA input that accepted 1360x768, I'd probably run out and buy one tomorrow, for example. As it stands, I wouldn't buy it, especially at the inflated price it goes for. I still can't believe they dropped it on the "high-end" model.

EDIT: Oh, and the Sharp bobs 1080i. (but it's better than the 540p the Samsung gets)

EDIT2: Also forgot to mention that it was a perfect panel with no pixel defects and a perfectly uniform backlight.

[MJ]

Upon setting up my Samsung LCD yesterday I realised I may have problems connecting the YPbPr Power Box to it because all the phono type inputs are flush to their holes. This is fine for the official Microsoft component lead because the outer circular connection is exposed and fits into the gap around the inputs, but could be a problem for the Power Box's plastic covered circular connections. I might be lucky though, there might be just enough metal exposed to make a connection:

You must have a dodgy one, all of my phono sockets stick out like any other ones do.

I'm not the only one that has this problem with the rear connection panel, but I never noticed it at first because of the design of the 360 component cable connectors.

I found out a lot of owners' TVs were like this, some people changed them until they got one with protruding sockets and some didn't mind. I bought mine in January and they are flush ones and others bought theirs last year and had flush ones.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2288924&postcount=18

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275483

As it happens there is enough of the circular connection exposed on the Power Box to fit over my phono sockets and in the gap around the edge.

[gIzzE]

No photos unfortunately, as my camera died the other day, but I finally got my Sharp LC-26GD7E from Richer Sounds today, after waiting for what seemed like forever to get the refund from Amazon for the Philips 37PF9830.


(LC32GD1E pictured, but it looks the same)

The box was bulkier than I was expecting, but it turns out that it was due to some good padding, and because it was fully "assembled" in the box - didn't have to put the stand on etc.

First impressions; this thing is tiny! Compared to what I've had previously, at least. I set it up in the lounge next to my old 28" Panasonic CRT, and while they have the exact same screen size, it felt smaller. (until I turned it on) The black border around the panel does a good job getting your attention and drawing you into the picture.

As I suspected from doing testing with viewing distances and various screen sizes/types, 26" is the right size for me. After getting over the initial shock of how small it was, I soon adjusted. I've had a 32" Samsung, felt I wanted bigger (for games) and went with the 37" Philips, which ended up with everything other than 1080i looking rubbish. When buying a TV in future, if you plan to watch broadcast television or DVDs, definitely go with 1/3 your viewing distance. I sit about 6, 6.5ft, which is why I went with this size.

I love the colour - they call it "titanium" and it's a beautiful bronze/golden colour. (note: the latest shots seem to make it look like a dark silver colour - it is just like the GD1 series) The set is very well made, although I'd give the edge to Philips, but only because it felt much more solid with its full metal back and incredibly heavy stand. The plastic feels pretty thick and durable though, unlike the Samsung.

The set seems a bit... "chunky" but only because it's so compact - the thickness would probably seem about right with a bigger screen size. Not that it bothered me though, it just wasn't what I was expecting.



Unfortunately, cable management is similar to the Philips 37PF9830 - the cables all go in a row along the back of the unit and fit in a fairly small vertical space. (you do get a good inch or so more height on this though) If you have good quality (chunky) cables, this can be a right pain.

I can't see it being done a lot better on a small screen like this though; there's only so much you have to work with, and if you have the cable management in the same style as the Samsung, it won't wall-mount so well.

Details were very scarce on this model for some reason, so I didn't know about one big letdown - neither the HDMI or VGA inputs have a dedicated analogue audio port. (I believe they can share the single digital port though)

Speaking of HDMI, just like the Philips, it did not like PAL signals from my Oppo via a DVI > HDMI cable - unlike the Philips, it does work in 50Hz from my Powerbook, leading me to believe it's an issue with the player, rather than the display.


Update: As I was in the middle of writing this, I received an email from Oppo. (I sent an email this afternoon) They provided me with an updated (unreleased) firmware which gets it working perfectly. The Sharp has very little overscan applied, so you can actually see the very slight underscan the Oppo does. (for some reason)



Up close, as with all fixed-pixel displays, unless you're running native resolution (or higher, downscaled) the image quality is fairly average, although better than most I've seen. Back to the "proper" viewing distance of 6ft+ things certainly took a turn for the better. After playing around with the settings, the resulting image was fantastic. Unlike the previous two LCDs, I didn't have to do much to get it looking good - turned it to "soft" picture mode, and turning sharpness to 1 (out of five) looked great. It only needed a little fine-tuning to get it just right. I couldn't find any colour temperature settings though, so it was a little on the cool-side for my tastes, but changing from "Dynamic" to "Soft" definitely seemed to warm things up a bit.

My 360 has started crashing, and is due to be collected soon, but it was able to run for 5-10 minutes at a time, depending on the game, so I've done a bit of testing. It doesn't have the infamous "ghosting" on the menus that shows up on many displays that don't handle 720p so well over component. (the Philips set for one) The games just look phenomenal - way ahead of the Philips 37" LCD. (didn't have it when I had the Samsung, so I can't say how it compares to that)

I was unable to get CoD2 running long enough to give response time a hard test (one of the Russian levels mid-way through starts off rather dark, and excellent for showing up bad response times) as it wasn't even getting past the boot screen by that point, no matter how long I waited, or how many times I tried it.

It seems to have handled just about everything I've thrown at it very well - Shadow of the Colossus and Resident Evil 4 look better than they did in RGB on my CRT - I've always thought both were very aliased/low-res, but they looked much better here. (although Resi still wasn't great, imo) While not perfect, it handles interlaced games rather well too. This was somewhere the Samsung was seriously lacking, imo. I don't have Devil May Cry 3 anymore for the best test (that I've found) but unlike the Samsung, ships in Gradius didn't "disappear" when you come back, and ICO was playable. (was just a blurry mess on my Samsung)

The set really lives up to its name - everything is very sharp! This is the reason that games look so good.

DVB-T (freeview) is fairly responsive, and very good with aspect ratio switching (faster than I've seen) and while the source isn't great, it certainly looked fine. I actually had the aerial going to both sets, and in the daytime at least, the LCD blew away the CRT.



Unfortunately, it's not perfect. (of course) There is one glaring issue that I can't overlook - either "OPC" is not working, which seems unlikely, or the set does not infact have it. (Two members of staff at Richer Sounds told me it did, and I actually called Sharp to confirm this, and that it would work on all inputs)

There is nothing listed in the menus, the manual or any button on the remote relating to it. Covering up where the sensor should be (going by the GD1 models) does absolutely nothing. Sharp have said they will call back tomorrow, as they didn't have an answer, but I'm not expecting anything.

While the response time is typically great, in darker scenes, there is a tiny hint of smearing. Worse, however, is what would seem to be their "quickshoot" technology in action, at least I assume that's what it is. The only way I can think of describing it is "rippples" over large, fast-moving objects in a scene. This makes it sound worse than it is, but it's very similar to some Pixel-Plus 2 artefacts. (but on a lesser scale)

It has the worst menu system I have ever seen. Some things have too many options, others, not enough. What is really annoying though, is that nearly every menu has a "more" option that expands it to reveal settings you would use quite often. (like Brightness, for example)

There doesn't seem to be a comb-filter of any kind on the set!!! Now, for me, this is not an issue, as RGB SCART is the lowest connection I'll use, but I tested it for Lyris, as he was planning on purchasing the set as well. It was unbelievably bad with a 4:3 PSone game stretched into Widescreen over composite, like the interference was being stretched differently from the rest of the image, somehow.

As it is, I can't recommend the display. I keep wanting to like it enough to keep, but even if I have missed something painfully obvious with regards to the backlight (although I doubt it) the artefacting with a lot of motion puts me off enough to let other things like the lack of audio inputs for HDMI / VGA get to me.

I've had some trouble getting 1:1 over VGA too, although that may have been related to my Powerbook, I think a DisplayConfigX update might have sorted it. (all my custom resolutions were getting sent as 85Hz, even if I specified 60Hz only) I couldn't get it working with several of the resolutions from the Xbox 360 though, including 1360x768. (1280x720 did work though)

What I hate though is when a set does some things fantastically well, and then has major issues (imo) like these. While colour temperature is a little cool for my liking, as I mentioned earlier, it is far better than most, but colour rendition is fantastic. Colours are very saturated, yet still look natural, and as long as the scene isn't primarily dark, images have real depth to them that I haven't seen on another LCD. Bright scenes on this set are absolutely stunning.


Even though this was supposed to be a "stopgap" television, as I really need a display, there are too many (big) negatives for me to keep it, so it will have to go back.

I guess I'll have to wait for the Panasonic 600 series due out around mid-March now, but I'm not convinced that'll be the answer.

With brighter scenes, the viewing angles are fantastic (although I pretty much always view head-on) but it doesn't do so well in darker ones, with them washing out just like every other LCD.

One thing I do find strange is that while it's rated at 450cd/m2, the Samsung was 500, and the Philips 550, yet this seems to be the brightest of them all when Contrast is maxed. (not that I run it like that)

It's amazing how hard it is I'm finding to actually give one of these companies my money. I'm not looking for the ultimate in quality now - all I really want is something decent that doesn't have any major flaws. I could have overlooked the audio inputs, and the terrible menu design on this set if it didn't have the artefacting on quick motion and had a backlight sensor. (as long as it could go down low enough)

If the Sony V had a VGA input that accepted 1360x768, I'd probably run out and buy one tomorrow, for example. As it stands, I wouldn't buy it, especially at the inflated price it goes for. I still can't believe they dropped it on the "high-end" model.

EDIT: Oh, and the Sharp bobs 1080i. (but it's better than the 540p the Samsung gets)

EDIT2: Also forgot to mention that it was a perfect panel with no pixel defects and a perfectly uniform backlight.

Great report mate!

But with everytyhing you describe why not go plasma!!
You can sit twice as close to a plasma as you can an LCD of the same size and it doesn't have all the things you hate about lcd. It has other issues, like image retention, but if you get a Panasonic this really is a non issue.
Look at the Panasnoic 37" 600 range of plasmas.

I use mine with my ibook all the time, and play games on it for hours and hours, never had image retention. I have also owned Pioneers and an NEC and they are awful for image retention, but buy the right one and it is not an issue.

[andrewfee]

Great report mate!

But with everytyhing you describe why not go plasma!!
You can sit twice as close to a plasma as you can an LCD of the same size and it doesn't have all the things you hate about lcd. It has other issues, like image retention, but if you get a Panasonic this really is a non issue.
Look at the Panasnoic 37" 600 range of plasmas.

I use mine with my ibook all the time, and play games on it for hours and hours, never had image retention. I have also owned Pioneers and an NEC and they are awful for image retention, but buy the right one and it is not an issue.

Unfortunately, it seems I'm one of the few that sees the Plasma "rainbows" very easily; not just on fast-moving, high contrast edges. So, just like DLP, any Philips LCDs with HCFL lamps, and CRTs, it's not even an option now. I'm really wanting a smaller display, after seeing just how good the sharp looked. (partly due to size/viewing distance, and the screen itself)

I've had two call-backs from Sharp's service department this morning about the backlight adjustment, and they're as puzzled as I am. Everyone seems to think the set has it, but no-one can find anything about it.

Surely I can't be the only person that has noticed there's no form of backlight adjustment on the set!?

Even in artificial light, blacks aren't great as it's so bright, it was only really good in daylight. I'm not expecting unrealistic blacks from an LCD - I know that they have their limitations, but if I can actually get the backlight down to 100-150cd/m2 I'd be happy. My Powerbook at 100cd/m2 doesn't have perfect blacks, but they're certainly good enough. If only it had some sort of inputs...

All I want from a set is:

• Backlight adjustment. Manual control preferred, but a combination of manual and a sensor would be ideal. (my Powerbook has a 16-step backlight, and a sensor that can be turned on/off, which "learns" from any changes you make)
  
  Blacks are LCD's biggest problem, and now manufacturers seem to be removing the only "solution" they have from all their high-end sets. Why on earth do they think this is a good idea?
  
• No processing, or the ability to disable any processing going on. If it is very minimal, I could probably live with it. This one puzzles me even more than backlight adjustment though - why is it that even the cheaper sets like the Samsung force processing and all its artefacts on us? Last year's Samsung displays let you turn DNIe off, now it can't even be disabled in the Service menu! It can clearly be done, as it does a half-and-half "demo" mode, with one half off. I've yet to see any additional processing done that has improved the image, and the only sets without any are the cheap ones that have poor panels.
  
• A PC input that supports native resolution for 1:1 mapping. VGA will do, but DVI-I would be ideal. Sharp used to get this right - 1:1 over VGA and DVi, and had the option for 1:1 on any source, if you wanted it. (added a border around some things, but handy to have)
  I'd really prefer it to support 50Hz over VGA, as it can be done, even if it is not an official standard. (if i remember correctly) If that can't be done, then going up to 75Hz should at least be possible, and would mean a HTPC is an option.
  
• A reasonably fast panel. Again, I know this is one area where LCD doesn't excel, but as long as things aren't actually leaving big trails behind them, I can put up with a little "loss of focus."
  
• Centring on all inputs. This one is trivial to do, but most manufacturers don't have the option, in the user menus at least. Sharp allows it on most inputs, and it's something necessary imo. Unless everything is always perfect on the set, the option needs to be there. Philips were equally good, although it was not made obvious. (you just use the arrows on the remote when watching something)
  
• Proper downscaling. I believe most 2006 sets will do this, but many previous ones were guilty here. The majority of sets either convert a 1080i signal to 540p and scale up, effectively throwing away half the resolution. Other sets just "bob" the image, which is nearly as bad.
  
  The image should be properly de-interlaced, and then scaled down. Even DELL TVs do this right!
  
• Multi-signal support. Shouldn't be an issue these days, but proper PAL support (no 60Hz conversion please) and supporting NTSC etc is a must. I don't care about the tuner though - UK standards or DVB-T is fine.
  
• Per-input settings. Multiple ones per-input would be ideal (my old Panasonic CRT has 3) but one each is ok. It would be nice if you could copy settings from other inputs. (but I've never seen it done) Having to change brightness/colour etc for every input is ridiculous. They must store all visual settings though - many sets only store brightness/contrast/colour, and things like Noise Reduction are universal - you might want NR on some inputs (personally I wouldn't at all though) but not have it on better sources.

Surely this basic set of requirements is not unreasonable? There are a few sets that offer many of these options, but not all - a lot of the cheaper displays actually have just about everything but a good panel in them. Sharp's GD1 series seemed to have it all (well, at the time, they had the best panels around, but not now) however they've completely screwed things up with the GD7.



My wish-list for what I'd like to see on sets:

• Colour temperature controls. Now, I'm not talking about warm/normal/cool here. I don't care if the option is buried deep in the menus, but I'd prefer it not to only be accessible in the service menu. I'd love to be able to adjust the RGB Cuts & Drives to do a greyscale calibration. My friend's old 32" Sony plasma (back when they were about ?3k) has this option in the user menus, but again, they just seem to be "dumbing down" TVs these days. I don't see why they don't just throw in all the options and leave a "reset to defaults" in there so it can be "fixed" if someone changes settings without understanding them.
  
• Colour decoder controls / colour management. Now, I'm not talking about additional processing to the signal like Samsung's My Colour Control, but rather adjusting the colour decoder's individual RGB values, rather than just "colour" which moves all three up/down at once. Secondaries (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow) would be even better, but I'd be happy with primaries. Sharp sets used to do this, but it's gone, as it "confused" people. (why not just have it as "colour" by default, and have it hidden away in an "advanced" menu?) I believe Pioneer plasmas are the only displays to still have this option.
  
• Gamma Controls. I'd even be happy with presets, if they ranged from about 1.8 to 2.5. Most flat-panels' gamma is set too low, and cannot even be changed via the service menu now. This means that colour reproduction can never be right on these screens, and images lack "punch."
  
  A slider from 1.0-3.0 would be ideal, but I'd be happy with just some basic presets. Once again, this was an option common on older sets, and I believe Sony LCDs let you pick 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2.
  
• A decent menu system. This one seems hard to get right, for some reason. Either they are convoluted and have many pointless options, while missing out important ones, (sharp) look nice, but are far too basic, or are far too slow/unresponsive. I don't mind having, by default, a very basic menu set, but I just wish they would throw in an "advanced menus on/off" setting to enable all the features people who know what they are doing want.
  
• Removable speakers. Another thing that used to be standard on many sets, but has now almost disappeared. It's nice that they have moved below the screen on most sets, but I rarely ever use TV speakers and typically pass all sound to my amp. You can get plasma "monitors" and I think Pioneer plasma ones are removable, but most LCDs are fixed now. The Sharp GD7 series looks virtually identical to the GD1, but you can no longer remove the speakers. (or tilt/rotate the stand)
  
• Overscan adjustment. LCDs are not so bad for this, but I've still not seen it done right - it's either too much (awful) or not enough. (sharp)
  
  If it's not enough, then you get black borders around everything, or see artefacts around the edge of the screen that should not be visible. If it's too much, then important onscreen information (in games particularly) can get cut off. A slider from 0% to 10% would suffice.
  
• A decent amount of inputs. Every set must have at least one Component, HDMI w/HDCP, RGB SCART and D-Sub. These are all pretty standard. Personally, I don't care for composite/s-video inputs. We have SCART on our sets, so why not just supply an adapter and save the space for something more important?
  
  If you must have side-mounted inputs (I don't see the point) then do what Sony does in the US, and add another couple of RCA jacks, and allow component in, sharing the same audio inputs and use the yellow rca socket for Y.
  
  Ideally, you would have at least two HDMI sockets, both supporting HDCP. (switch boxes are damn expensive!)
  DVI-I w/HDCP, preferably supplied with a Y splitter to DVI-D and DVI-A, and a HDMI adapter, for a total of three digital HD inputs on the set.
  Two rows of component jacks, and as mentioned, if there is going to be a side-input, allow it to take component.
  Two SCART sockets - one RGB capable, the second as an output (preferably also RGB) both supporting Composite and S-Video via adapters.
  D-Sub for a dedicated PC input; not essential, as DVI-I would support it, but it's nice having two VGA inputs - one for the PC, one for a 360. (or Dreamcast & 360 etc)
  
  It would be nice if they would also accept 1080p24 and downscale, or even better 1080p60, but it's very expensive for that sort of processing, so just doing 1080i properly would keep me happy.
  
• Some sort of "interlaced" mode. Now, this is just an idea I had, so I don't know if it would work/how well it would work. As it is now, things like broadcast television are at 50/60Hz. On a CRT, while it's only half-frames, you are seeing 60 updates per-second on the screen. With an LCD, the image is de-interlaced and shown at 30fps. While it is still technically the same amount of full-frames, the way they are delivered is different, and as such, your eye perceives the interlaced images as having smoother motion, as there are more updates/second.
  
  I have two ideas on how to possibly solve this, although perhaps they have already been tried & tested, and do not work. The first, was just to show interlaced images as the are, and black out the "gaps." Unfortunately, as it will then be upscaled, I can see this resulting in rather large scanlines, which would be visible from quite some distance. My second idea is to first properly de-interlace the image, scale it up to the panel's native resolution, and then split the scaled image again, but this time each "scanline" would be every other pixel, meaning it's fine enough to be invisible. This way you are getting 60 different updates per second, and you should perceive things to be much smoother, rather than the current 30 updates/second we see, which results in "blurring" (although it is the way you perceive the image that makes it blur, it actually isn't)
  
  Unfortunately, if the image is not properly de-interlaced in the first place, then this could cause some artefacting, but the advantages may outweigh any disadvantages it might have. Of course, this would have an on/off option if you don't like it. (or allow you to choose between which type of "interlacing" is used.

Of course, that's just a wish-list, and I don't expect anything on that list to be on sets, but it'd be great if it was. I'd love to design the interface/remote for a television, as just about everyone seems to get it wrong. I've not seen any menus I've been happy with yet.

[gIzzE]

I see the "rainbow" effect on a lot of plasmas too, and one of the main reasons I went from a PW range Panny to the HD range Panny, I have seen it a few times on the HD8 but used to see it all the time on the PW6, and see it alot on the PE50 and PV500.

But you can't get an HD8 in 37" in this country.

[Kevvy Metal]

to andrewfee Why not try the LG 26LX2R that myself and shakey have (and loads of others) It looks like a good set to my eyes and it would be interesting to read ur "take no prisoners" disection report on the TV

[themanwithapc]

Sorry to hear that andrew. I do have a solution for one of the problems though. Although I have the GA6E, and I'm not sure how many similarities there are between the 2, I think they're very similar sets.

For 1:1 pixel mapping over VGA, try the resolution 1280x768 and leave the screen as it is i.e. with borders on the side and not stretched out. This gives an excellent picture, and is probably the best you're gonna get through VGA. In fact, shouldn't this be a desirable setting altogether, since it's closer to the native HD res of 1280x720?

I only skimmed through your review as I was in a hurry, but later on I'll read it thorughly and see if the same things are evident on my screen and if they can be resolved.

Just out of interest, have you tried looking at the Loewe range?

[Baseley09]

Interesting reports here, but has anyone actually agreed on a great flat panel set yet?

Any that are good with RGB either?