HD-DVD Players

[forpey]

Right. I'm getting a HDTV, and I wanna watch DVDs in HD.

Is there any point paying for a DVD player that upscales, e.g. http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=p...C&title=815311

Or will using a DVD player that has Progressive Scan be just as good?

Thanks.

[vertigo]

DVDs don't come in HD format though, do they, coz they don't have enough space.
Standard DVD resoultion is 720*480 i.e. 480 lines so you're looking at 480p for your best output from a standard DVD.
You won't get HD movies until a bigger format comes along.
IMO it won't matter a **** whether you watch your DVD in 480p or upscaled, coz it's the connection that really matters for picture quality. You won't get any extra quality by displaying the DVD at a higher resolution. It's possible that you may actually end up with a worse picture due to upscaling and picture processing. I reckon you should just get whatever you can get that has either a RGB SCART connection or HDMI if you're really choosy (not that it matters a **** really, the difference is non-existant) and then wait for a proper HD player for that sort of thing.
I think.

[stormbreak]

Delete this post please

[sj33]

It's possible that you may actually end up with a worse picture due to upscaling and picture processing.

Upscaling happens at the TV end anyway though. Upscaling DVD players are based on the idea that upscaling at the player end, with dedicated scalers designed for the job (as opposed to the all purpose ones TV's tend to include), along with processes to enhance image quality and remove artifacts, would be the superior option.

Your point is still correct though. The difference isn't night and day, or that noticable. If you watch DVD's like I do, you may want to consider it as your most likely to see a difference. If you just watch the odd film now and again, don't bother.

[forpey]

Cool, thanks for that. I think I'm gonna stick with my existing player through RGB Scart. Doesn't seem worth the upgrade.

I presume different TV's upscale better than others though.

[Salsa Party Animal]

From the feedback in AVForums there is no decent budget DVD Player with HDMI and upscaling stuff. There are flaws in every model. ie Lip Synch problems on Denon 1920. I was thinking about buying this Denon 1920 after getting a TV, change my mind now.

[dvdx2]

DVDs don't come in HD format though, do they, coz they don't have enough space.
Standard DVD resoultion is 720*480 i.e. 480 lines so you're looking at 480p for your best output from a standard DVD.
You won't get HD movies until a bigger format comes along.
IMO it won't matter a **** whether you watch your DVD in 480p or upscaled, coz it's the connection that really matters for picture quality. You won't get any extra quality by displaying the DVD at a higher resolution. It's possible that you may actually end up with a worse picture due to upscaling and picture processing. I reckon you should just get whatever you can get that has either a RGB SCART connection or HDMI if you're really choosy (not that it matters a **** really, the difference is non-existant) and then wait for a proper HD player for that sort of thing.
I think.

Either you need a new setup m8, or your eyes tested

Are you trying to say an RGB signal fed into an LCD screen is the same quality as an image upscaled to 1080i via HMDI? Dont think so. I upscale from the tosh 350 upscaling dvd player to a 32" Sony Bravia, and the difference is unbelivable.

I dont mean to sound rude, but it would be a shame for someone who is wanting to improve the quality of their set up, to not bother because of what you have said.

[sj33]

Interesting article about upscaling and how it helps.

http://www.oppodigital.com/Getting-Most-out-of-DVD-on-HDTV-Display.html

Many may argue it biased, given it's written by Oppo - creators of IMO the best budget upscaling player, but it hits the mark generally. It's more than just bumping up the resolution, there's more to it.

[forpey]

Nice article, cheers.

Seems like its worth going with a new DVD if only for the HDMI connection. If I understand correctly, using an RGB scart connection means the picture is going from digital to analoge and back digital as it is processed from the player through the scart and then upscaled.

Using HDMI would at least minamise the amount of processing.

If I understood it that is...

[mr_sockochris]

The Samsung 950 looks sweet in 720p through HDMI, go for it

[gIzzE]

Few things to bear in mind.

On flat panel display it will deinterlace anything that is not already progressive and it will scale everything to the panels native resolution, whether that be 1024x768, 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

If you feed it interlaced it will deinterlace it first, may do it well or may do it really badly, and then scale to match the native resolution.

If you feed it a progressive signal it just has to scale to mach the native reolution.

If you feed it 720p you may see benifits if your screen is native 1280x720, if it is anything else you have a bit of a problem because your player is deinterlacing then scaling and then the screen is scaling again, which can cause some funny artifacts.
Even with a screen that is 1280x720 you have to be able to adjust the horizontal and vertical size to get the output of the source to match the pixels on screen, once this is done you are bypassing the screens internal processing.

Don't even bother with 1080i on a flat panel if possible, it may look sharper to untrained eyes, but compare it on another screen and you will see there are some artifacts in there that are not good.

Also HDMI generally only looks better on cheaper kit where the analogue outs/ins are pretty poor.

I have yet to see an upscaling dvd player outperform a progressive player of the same price. Also dvds have the info stored in component interlaced so outputting in component is a good thing as one less conversion to be done.

[forpey]

Thanks. Seems like I'm gonna have to keep looking and make sure I get a player and a TV at the same time that fit each other.

Is it just me or is all this HD stuff a bit complicated? I feel like we are in a transitional stage, and nothing I get will be 'perfect'.

I currently know my Sony Wega 32 CRT is getting the best possible picture, without much hassle. Seems like if I wanna get the best out of an LCD I have to do a hell of a lot of homework.

[vertigo]

Either you need a new setup m8, or your eyes tested

Are you trying to say an RGB signal fed into an LCD screen is the same quality as an image upscaled to 1080i via HMDI? Dont think so. I upscale from the tosh 350 upscaling dvd player to a 32" Sony Bravia, and the difference is unbelivable.

I dont mean to sound rude, but it would be a shame for someone who is wanting to improve the quality of their set up, to not bother because of what you have said.

Standard DVD resolution is 480 lines, so I don't see why upscaling it to a higher resolution would give you a better picture, because you're still dealing with 480 lines of resolution at source.

Upscaling just interpolates the pixel data that's already there up to 720 lines. It's a form of picture processing, like I said, you're basically displaying 480 lines at a 720 resolution and anti-aliasing really well. It's false detail calculated by the picture processor that's designed to fudge the fact that the source lacks 720 lines of detail so the data that is there is averaged and that's what gets displayed. You're not actually seeing more and there isn't any more data on the disc, the source is still 480 lines. It puts me in mind of things like Eagle or 2xSai smoothing filters for emulators which I avoid like the plague. I don't see how interpolating pixels can provide you with more detail though. Sure, it makes a picture look smoother when it's being displayed at a higher resolution, which you might want if your TV's massive, but more detail? No.
I'm obviously wrong though, apparently.

[mid]

Going from digital to analogue back to digital rather than using DVI-D gives very slight differences in colour temperature (and nothing else) at 1280x1024 on my PC monitor that I'm sitting 2 feet away from. I fail to see how it's going to introduce irreperable damage to a 720x480 DVD signal.

The question here (once we get past the very sensible question of deinterlacing, where it makes sense to do it on the device that can read the direct disc info to know where which field is which frame) is just down to how much better a job your DVD player can do of scaling than your television. Particularly when most people have just bought LCD screens that run at 1366x768, and so will be re-scaling 720p as well, I wouldn't suggest running out and spending hundreds of pounds on a new DVD player if the one you have can output progressive anyway.

[Rossco]

No-one is saying that it adds details, that would be just plain stupid in believing that, as you cant just add information that isnt on the disc. Its not possible. But it does improve image quality. Thats the whole point of them, and they work.

And a noticeable improvement is made, otherwise people wouldn't spend hundreds of pounds on these players if you got the exact same image quality as a ?30 tesco job.

Your argument is totally against Jake saying it adds details which he hasnt said once because it doesnt do that. Understand that all we're saying is that it improves image quality on HD sets, removes artifacting, fixes any colour distortion etc.