Gamecube PAL vs NTSC, 480i/p and deinterlacing

[Link83]

Hi everyone,

I have read alot about the Gamecube's progressive scan ability - how the option was removed from PAL games even though the PAL gamecube is still capable or progressive scan etc.

All my Gamecube games are currently PAL, and I am debating if it is really worth replacing them all with the NTSC couterparts simply for 480p

What I am really wondering is if the difference between 480i (or 576i for that matter) and 480p is really all that great?

Also, as I understand it, all LCD and Plasma screens display everything in progressive scan anyway due to the nature of the display, and they do this by 'deinterlacing' the picture. Apparently in this way 1080i can be made into a 1080p video, so is this also true for 480i and 480p?

In other words, even if my Gamecube only outputs the games in 480i, would a modern display still convert it into 480p?
....and if so, would it look exactly the same as if I were playing an NTSC Gamecube with an NTSC game in 480p?

Put another way - Which would be better, having the Gamecube output 480p? or having the display covert 480i into 480p? Or would there be no difference?

If this is the case, then surely I would be better sticking with my PAL versions, as they would be 576i, which when deinterlaced would become 576p, which has slightly more detail than 480p.

Or am I completely wrong? Any advise or info would be much appreciated

[SuperCoolAl]

Firstly, the deinterlacing in your TV will not produce as good a picture as using component cables and playing in progressive scan. So having the Gamecube output 480p will produce a better picture.

Secondly, if you play in 60Hz mode then there are 480 lines on the screen, not 576.

I *think* if you use a Freeloader on a PAL cube with NTSC discs you can play in progressive with supporting games. I myself just had a PAL Cube with RGB SCART and that always had a good enough picture for me.

[gunrock]

I *think* if you use a Freeloader on a PAL cube with NTSC discs you can play in progressive with supporting games.

This is true, but you need a component cable for this obviously (or a hacked VGA cable). In my experience (though maybe less so with the cube) is that 640x480 vga > 480i/576i. Dreamcast being a case in point.

[angel]

Why not buy a Wii with it's easily available component cables and use that for your cube games? You can play your pal ones over 480i, and start purchasing imports to use with the wii freeloader....or even the swap trick.

I use my pal wii + component leads to get a 480p pic on my lcd and i think it's worth it.

[SuperCoolAl]

He might not want a Wii. Although that is definitely one way of doing it.

[Link83]

Thanks for the replies.

Im currently playing all my PAL games through RGB scart at 60hz which looks great, and I bought a Gamecube component cable when they were available from Play-asia in 'preparation' for buying an LCD TV in the near future.

I just dont know if its worth replacing all my PAL gamecube games with NTSC versions simply for 480p. Does it really make that big of a difference? Ive never seen a 480i vs 480p game before and I have no-way to compare it myself at present so im not sure what I should do

I have conisdered the Qoob Pro modchip as I have read that it has the abilty to force progressive scan on PAL games, but I dont know much more about it. Anyone like to shed some more light on it? (eg How good is it, Any problems forcing PS, etc)

The other alternative is that I buy NTSC versions of all my games (about 40 or more) I realise I could sell all my PAL versions to help fund this, but I dont feel that im ready to part with them all just yet.

I dont yet own a Wii, but when I do get one I will probably end up getting a US Wii simply so that I dont get the rubbish 50hz PAL virtual console - unless of course Nintendo (or a modchip) sort out the PAL virtual console before I buy one...

....and I know this may be wishful thinking, but I am kind of hoping that the Wii will eventually have a modchip available for it that can do the same as the QoobPro and force proressive scan on PAL Gamecube games - or do you think im expecting too much?

[EddieG]

Secondly, if you play in 60Hz mode then there are 480 lines on the screen, not 576.

Er... Are you sure about this, doesn't selecting 60hz swap to PAL-60 not NTSC?

I *think* if you use a Freeloader on a PAL cube with NTSC discs you can play in progressive with supporting games. I myself just had a PAL Cube with RGB SCART and that always had a good enough picture for me.

YUP that's true, if you have a component cable attached they just boot up and ask if you want to display in progressive, (just like the PAL games that prompt for 60hz).


WARNING: If you do go down the route of replacing your games, be aware that not all NTSC games support Progressive Scan.

Eddie.

[egparadigm]

The truth is it depends what display you have. Some are very good at converting and you will not notice a difference. The only way to know for sure is by running a direct comparison. Get yourself one US game and run it in 480p and in interlaced and see if you notice a difference. If you do, decide if it's worth the extra cost.

[JamesS]

Er... Are you sure about this, doesn't selecting 60hz swap to PAL-60 not NTSC?

PAL60 is the same resolution as NTSC. It's basically identical to NTSC except it uses PAL colour encoding.

Through a component/RGB connection where there's no colour encoding going on, there's no difference between a PAL console at 60Hz and an NTSC system.

[SG]

I'm doing this ATM

Getting all U GC games. It's an expensive thing to do as I only get things new and sealed. But I'm getting a US Wii due to the horrendous VC here in Europe so it should all work out OK in the end.


If only Nintendo didn't treat us European like **** what with the crappy bordered and slow VC, black and white booklets, more expensive games and lack of 480p support on GC games then it wouldn't be a problem. Nintendo as a company are great. Nintendo of Europe aren't.

[mekanor]

resurecting old thread. looking at this for when in future i buy a nice big hd telly. dont really want to replace all my pal cube games just so i can get 480p so was wondering how well upscaling works on a 480i signal. is it likely to give me as good a picture as 480p?

other thing was i thought about getting a qoobed cube though according to this list stolen from another thread, the ability to force 480p on pal games isnt so great

Games compatible :
- Mario Kart DD pal
- Mario Party 6 pal
- Resident Evil 4 pal
- Doshin the Giant
- Killer 7 pal
- Micromachines PAL
- Ikaruga PAL
- Wave Race Blue Storm
- Wario Ware Inc. (Strange because i read that the NTSC doesn?t work)
- Resident Evil 0 - 4 (1 flickering!)
- Resident Evil Code Veronica
- Zelda Mega Collection
- Wario World (gfx issues)
- Super Smash Brother Melee
- All Mario Titles
- Eternal Darkness (only on 50 HZ)
- Final Fantasy Chronicles
- Super Monkey Ball 2
- Beach Spikers
- 1080 Avalanche
- Baten Kaitos
- Dragon?s Lair 3D Special Edition
- Sonic Adventure
- Pokemon Box
- Tales of Symphonia
- Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
- Zelda Four Swords
- Paper Mario 2
- StarFox Assault
- StarWars Roque Leader (german pal)
- Pikmin 2
- Gotcha Force
- P.N.03 (flickering!)
- Donkey Konga 1
- Skies of Arcadia
- Bomberman Generation
- Viewtifull Joe 1,2 (both flickering)
- Metroid Prime 1 (50Hz Mode necessary!)
- Need for Speed Underground 2
- Wario world (PAL)
- Animal Crossing (PAL)
- Starfox adventures (PAL)
- Buffy the vampire slayer (PAL)
- Hello Kitty Roller Rescue (PAL)
- Crash Bandicoot The Wrath Of Cortex (PAL)


Games non compatible
- Viewtiful Joe pal
- Resident Evil - Works ok with major flickering at top and bottom of screen making the game near unplayable
- Resident Evil 0 pal (menu and the cut scenes Ok, rest =messed up)
- UK gameboy player boot disc
- Pokemon Colloseum
- Animal Crossing
- Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes
- Star Wars Rebel Strike (german pal)
- Pikmin 1
- Metroid Prime 2

[Salsa Party Animal]

You could try to swap games with people who might want PAL version for their PAL wii.

[sj33]

To be honest, on any decent TV, the difference between 480i and 480p is going to be slight at best. Some games like Resi REmake are 480i only, and are still the most gorgeous games out there.

[mekanor]

You could try to swap games with people who might want PAL version for their PAL wii.

thought about it but own a lot of pal games for collection reasons, and tbh i dont think i could be bothered re completing the saves i couldnt convert.

To be honest, on any decent TV, the difference between 480i and 480p is going to be slight at best. Some games like Resi REmake are 480i only, and are still the most gorgeous games out there.

mm i suppose thats comforting. oh well then, if i ever get around to getting a qoob cube then hoorah for the games it works with, its all going to be upscaled anyway